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Ah HA!!! I see said the blind man. Thanks for this. I have done some things around this whole area I am not too proud of. This makes great sense... As I promised, payment...
Deep bow and thank you!
no you don't said the mute...yes he did said the deaf
Those capsule filters on all I dealt with, and owned, down here, were in a sad state, and I tried cleaning them in all sorts of solvents, with limited success.
Looking at the plumbing, and the system IS sucking air, when needed, from the "clean air" side of the B bank air cleaner, and when not sucking, the breathing is being dumped, via the hoses etc from that capsule, into the "clean air" side of the B bank air cleaner. I saw no reason for that capsule, so out it went.
Those banjo bolts, oh boy.
The factory copper washers were no more than a shim, and generic washers are much thicker, good, BUT, the bolts barely grip by 3 threads NOW, and the thicker washers will reduce that, and stripping those 2 or 3 threads from the tappet block is easier than you will believe. There are a lot more threads supplied inside the tappet blocks, and that is why the longer bolts were readily available, and solved the stripping issue. Leaks from here, as assembled by the factory, are basically zero. Stripped threads by owners doing the right thing, believing the leaks are from there, and giving the bolt that little "tweak" are HUGE. 99% of leaks at the banjo bolt area ARE from the cam cover and the "D" seals.
I am with Greg as far as access is concerned. My adventures here were with an XJ12 Sedan, and that area of the enfine bay must be different, as I could get at those bolts, JUST, and did what was needed. However, releasing the transmission centre bolt, and raising the assembly as far into the tunnel as it will go, made the task slightly easier.
BUT
As I mentioned, this was before Forums and Internet, so we all did what we did to the best of our brains ability, and the number of beers in the fridge of course. My XJS cars were all attended to in this area with longer bolts etc, when the engines were out, along with other things of course.
Tappet block to head leaks are also rare, but I have one, the PreHE, and at 650000K kms, I am not that stupid as to even contemplate resealing them. It is a weep, and barely gets to the edge of the head and exhaust manifold. Gregs repair has been passed on to the new owner, and he agrees, but he reckons there is barely a leak there now, so care factor is so low as to not count.
Heres a question (not because I intend to mess around with the A bank banjo bolt if I don't have to). I recent got an engine cross brace/support used to support the engine while doing motor mounts and things. I needed it to replace motor mounts on the 928. Although I could prolly just use a jack on the xjs I was wondering if it MIGHT be possible (if I absolutely had to) to access that A bank rear banjo bolt by propping up the engine,,, removing the motor mounts which is something I need to do soon anyways,,,, and lower the engine to the point where the rear banjo bolt is more accessible due to the forward lean without the mounts....? In you all's experience would that offer some added space?
Also. Where can I get the longer bolts IF I were to need them. If I do have to remove them I don't want to reuse them and CAN'T be stuck for a week with them on order in NYC. I'll need the bits on hand, just in case.
As to the B bank bolt, and ONLY if it is leaking badly, I would wait until you get the cam covers off, as that would make any access there is far easier, and enable you to measure the space available to with draw the bolt and insert the new one. The problem is then not loosening the bolt, but withdrawing it as it hits the bulkhead. In extremis, maybe you could bash the bulkhead in a touch.
I would not recommend removing both motor mounts etc etc as you described. Doing one at a time is OK, engine tilted to one side, but trying to do both, having removed both, will give you HUGE positioning difficulties getting the engine in the precise fore and aft position to get the mount studs back in their slots on the engine brackets. The engine moves on the gearbox mount and and that makes the task VERY difficult. I have had to do this when replacing various things having swung down the front suspension cage on its front mounts, several times. Each time, even with two, a lift, and all sorts of tools, jacks etc etc, it has been a very very hard job to do.
I am with Grant on this, I bet you that the leaks are:
Cam cover half moons
Cam cover gaskets
Oil warning light/ gauge senders.
After my rebuild and after the car's first hard fast and hot 300 miles, I had lost half the oil in the engine. I could not find a leak anywhere but the underside of the car was dripping wet! Panic setting in about all sorts of catastrophic failures. Spoke to Grant on the Franco/Oz hotline, he said senders. I could not find anything. Eventually got Madame to rev the car while I inspected. I found a TINY, absolutely TINY drop of oil coming from the sender - lovely clean oil so damn-near invisible. Changed the sender and leak gone. So in your case I would fit new senders and forget the B bank cam feed unless absolutely incontrovertable evidence it is leaking - which you will not find!
And as the changing the senders, you MUST support the casting that they are one against the undoing torque, and the doing up torque, or you will snap it off...
Last edited by Greg in France; May 30, 2020 at 02:26 AM.
On that S2, I seriously considered going from inside the cabin, and drilling a 2" hole in the bulkhead at the precise point, 3 more beers, that was the silliest idea of the day, but at the time it had its merits. The fact I had to gut the interior of the car sounded ,and looked, way easier than getting at that bloody bolt from the engine side.
LUV owning a V12 or 2 or 3 or as I had 4, what a boring world if we only had the 1/2 engine.
On that S2, I seriously considered going from inside the cabin, and drilling a 2" hole in the bulkhead at the precise point, 3 more beers, that was the silliest idea of the day, but at the time it had its merits. The fact I had to gut the interior of the car sounded ,and looked, way easier than getting at that bloody bolt from the engine side.
LUV owning a V12 or 2 or 3 or as I had 4, what a boring world if we only had the 1/2 engine.
lol funny stuff.
I am also enjoying this car. Everytime I grab a wrench I think wtf were they thinking. Then I go about my business and when its all done I'm like that wasn't so bad. I could do it again lol.
As to the B bank bolt, and ONLY if it is leaking badly, I would wait until you get the cam covers off, as that would make any access there is far easier, and enable you to measure the space available to with draw the bolt and insert the new one. The problem is then not loosening the bolt, but withdrawing it as it hits the bulkhead. In extremis, maybe you could bash the bulkhead in a touch.
I would not recommend removing both motor mounts etc etc as you described. Doing one at a time is OK, engine tilted to one side, but trying to do both, having removed both, will give you HUGE positioning difficulties getting the engine in the precise fore and aft position to get the mount studs back in their slots on the engine brackets. The engine moves on the gearbox mount and and that makes the task VERY difficult. I have had to do this when replacing various things having swung down the front suspension cage on its front mounts, several times. Each time, even with two, a lift, and all sorts of tools, jacks etc etc, it has been a very very hard job to do.
I am with Grant on this, I bet you that the leaks are:
Cam cover half moons
Cam cover gaskets
Oil warning light/ gauge senders.
After my rebuild and after the car's first hard fast and hot 300 miles, I had lost half the oil in the engine. I could not find a leak anywhere but the underside of the car was dripping wet! Panic setting in about all sorts of catastrophic failures. Spoke to Grant on the Franco/Oz hotline, he said senders. I could not find anything. Eventually got Madame to rev the car while I inspected. I found a TINY, absolutely TINY drop of oil coming from the sender - lovely clean oil so damn-near invisible. Changed the sender and leak gone. So in your case I would fit new senders and forget the B bank cam feed unless absolutely incontrovertable evidence it is leaking - which you will not find!
And as the changing the senders, you MUST support the casting that they are one against the undoing torque, and the doing up torque, or you will snap it off...
This ^^^^^^
Very valuable bunch of information. Most important I have heard (it seems like it) in a loóooooong time. What you're telling me NOT to do was exactly what I was GOING to do - confidently - because I didn't know!!! Both the bolt and the mounts... Thank you thank you!
I swear I had planned to undo everything,,, and just jack or use that support to lift up on the motor! Maybe. I mighta paused, but prolly not. I might have just started turning on that bolt, as I can get a wrench in it,,, then get horribly stuck.
Q: I replaced the sensor and the sender when I first started and pulled everything out of the V... Is the leak in these two gizmos related to age,,, or is it just the seal in threading them in?
Last edited by JayJagJay; May 30, 2020 at 07:51 PM.
Dud units were/are still coming through.
The V12 runs 90+ psi oil pressure when cold, and that is way above most other engines.
Sealing of the tapered threads is always a weak point, and can be a mongrel to seal 100%, especially if a Rock Ape has been in there and damaged the Female section of that pedestal.
Best way is to clean it, and as Greg did, run the engine at 1500RPM, and LOOK. If its any,where around those senders that will show it quite quickly.
I'm ready to order the things I'll need for the top end, mostly oil leak related stuff. I don't want to get in there to find that there is something I'll need I don't have (absolutely the WORST part of working on the NYC streets) so I'm hoping to make a list.
I thought I might be able to live a while with the leaks I have. Was under the car the other day checking on the CPS and it's melted wire, to find a stream of blackened and COOKED motor oil running down almost the entire length of the LF exhaust pipe. No good. A bit on the RH side.
I don't think I am going to, or be able to in the case of the RH banjo, mess with the banjo bolts. The LH I did not long ago and it looks completely dry. The RH,,, well, I can't tell yet.
The only thing on my list is FInjector seals, the D half moons and an intake gasket(s). RTV for the cam covers, I have. Thinking to take GFs advise,,, I was going to go without a gasket UNLESS it's the gortex gasket....? Still unsure. Can someone please list some pros and cons for NO gasket vs WITH gasket??? Maybe link the gortex gasket - I haven't been able to find it...
The two oil pressure and dummy light senders are fairly new. Within 2 yrs.
What else will I need once I have the entire intake off? Are can cover bolts prone to shearing? Should I order a few now just in case?
As for gaskets what some shows where they are dealing with high hp k500plus) cars. You won't find a paper gasket anywhere. All use RTV finger smeared on. As long as its applied right imo its better cause it will fill those little imperfections on the surfaces. RTV has come a long way. There are specific ones for certain items. I use permatex the right stuff. Love It. Does everything except fuel gaskets
JJJ
My opinions in red:
The only thing on my list is FInjector seals, the D half moons and an intake gasket(s). RTV for the cam covers, I have. Thinking to take GFs advise,,, I was going to go without a gasket UNLESS it's the gortex gasket....? Still unsure. Can someone please list some pros and cons for NO gasket vs WITH gasket??? Maybe link the gortex gasket - I haven't been able to find it... Jaguar supply cam cover gaskets in Gortex, no other type. Manners also as long as you specify the type. I used these with a VERY light smear of RTV each side 10 years ago and still bone dry.
If you are going to do the injectors, buy a full kit and do everything, hoses, pintle caps, filter baskets and seals. This work does not require the intake manifolds to be removed, so you can do it as a separate job. Or do it while the manifolds are off, off-car.
The two oil pressure and dummy light senders are fairly new. Within 2 yrs. If not leaking leave alone.
What else will I need once I have the entire intake off? Are cam cover bolts prone to shearing? Should I order a few now just in case? Cam cover bolts no problem with undoing; BUT the OEM ones are a tad short. Read the Great Palm on this topic and buy slightly longer bolts (not too long or they foul, he specifies the length) with allen-key heads, spring washers and wider flat washers. Ensure the bolt length takes account of all these. This certainly worked for me. I think the threads are metric, but remove a bolt and check, cars differ.
Yeah, what else should I be thinking about?[/QUOTE] Cleaning the surfaces of the head and manifolds where the old intake manifold gaskets were is time consuming and not easy. This takes time and needs careful use of a sharp scraper-type tool. Cleaning the cam cover surfaces with brake cleaner-type stuff is vital. Replacing the manifolds if removed as a unit needs two, and great care not to drop the fixing nuts into the V. Have you got a magnet on a stick? Clean the V while the manifolds are off. Be VERY careful when the manifolds are off to stuff the intake holes in the head with stiff cotton rag, it is SO easy to drop stuff into the head!
JJJ
My opinions in red:
The only thing on my list is FInjector seals, the D half moons and an intake gasket(s). RTV for the cam covers, I have. Thinking to take GFs advise,,, I was going to go without a gasket UNLESS it's the gortex gasket....? Still unsure. Can someone please list some pros and cons for NO gasket vs WITH gasket??? Maybe link the gortex gasket - I haven't been able to find it... Jaguar supply cam cover gaskets in Gortex, no other type. Manners also as long as you specify the type. I used these with a VERY light smear of RTV each side 10 years ago and still bone dry.
If you are going to do the injectors, buy a full kit and do everything, hoses, pintle caps, filter baskets and seals. This work does not require the intake manifolds to be removed, so you can do it as a separate job. Or do it while the manifolds are off, off-car.
The two oil pressure and dummy light senders are fairly new. Within 2 yrs. If not leaking leave alone.
What else will I need once I have the entire intake off? Are cam cover bolts prone to shearing? Should I order a few now just in case? Cam cover bolts no problem with undoing; BUT the OEM ones are a tad short. Read the Great Palm on this topic and buy slightly longer bolts (not too long or they foul, he specifies the length) with allen-key heads, spring washers and wider flat washers. Ensure the bolt length takes account of all these. This certainly worked for me. I think the threads are metric, but remove a bolt and check, cars differ.
Yeah, what else should I be thinking about?
Cleaning the surfaces of the head and manifolds where the old intake manifold gaskets were is time consuming and not easy. This takes time and needs careful use of a sharp scraper-type tool. Cleaning the cam cover surfaces with brake cleaner-type stuff is vital. Replacing the manifolds if removed as a unit needs two, and great care not to drop the fixing nuts into the V. Have you got a magnet on a stick? Clean the V while the manifolds are off. Be VERY careful when the manifolds are off to stuff the intake holes in the head with stiff cotton rag, it is SO easy to drop stuff into the head![/QUOTE]
Hey Rescue and Greg! Thank you
Somehow I missed both of these posts,,, don't know how...
Took careful note. I will be driving in tomorrow. After I wrote my post and questions, about the fuel injectors, I replaced all of that two years ago. Reman bosch injectors from a reputable company and seals and the rubber shock around the injectors. I think I'm going to leave those alone. I am going to take a careful look at the underside of the intake to see if I can get a good look at the injectors caps from the underside. I am still puzzled as to the reason for the cracks that caused me all the problems a few weeks back.
I received a package from Welsh. I am super impressed by the thickness and quality of the intake gasket they sent, with a small role of what looks like packing tape (covered in the Welsh logo) to cover the ports while the intakes are off. And the two (smaller than I thought) D half moons.
I'll be very careful about cleaning up surfaces and think I will just be using Grant's famous red RTV approach. I'm excited about the job, honestly.
I plan on painting the covers once off. May sneak them in an oven to quick cure.
Greg, thanks. I do have magnets and will be super careful to make sure EVERYTHING that needs to be off of the intake connection area, everything in that area, is cleaned up and free of debris before I do anything.
I may have a tough time finding the proper allens to replace the hex,, but will try. If not I'll certainly be able to find hex heads of the proper thread and length.
Making good progress... Down to, for one, removing intake nutts... Hmm. They are almost falling off (if gravity wasn't working against them)... For the reassemble,,, what is proper torq down for the 24 intake nutts. I mean, I could feel it out but if there was a number I could hit it.
Things are going very smoothly. Magnets in hand, lol
Making good progress... Down to, for one, removing intake nutts... Hmm. They are almost falling off (if gravity wasn't working against them)... For the reassemble,,, what is proper torq down for the 24 intake nutts. I mean, I could feel it out but if there was a number I could hit it.
Things are going very smoothly. Magnets in hand, lol
Loose Inlet manifold, there is a major part of your crappy running.
Loose Inlet manifold, there is a major part of your crappy running.
Hey,,, She ain't runn'n so bad... Lol - but maybe I ain't seen nothin yet...
The real work is ahead of me now.
These gaskets are in SUCH GOOD shape I want to reuse them!???
Why are things so easy to take apart!? I really think this is my problem side... This side RH, looks dry ish... Haven't washed it yet. Looks ok... Clean up time... I haven't wiped them down yet,,, but they are solid and in perfect condition
Sure makes these last few hoses easier to get too...
Glad I have and held on to them the last 2 yrs...
I have jacked up the front of the car. Easier for my 6.4 frame and, most best, for enabling the soap and water, grease and grime, to run off. I wish I could be neater,,, but I'm not made that way. I'll go under and clean things up at the end.
