So last night, I finally had enough with the body shop that has been working on the Jag for 2 1/2 years. As I live overseas, I only make it back to Baltimore twice a year to check on this.

To recap my situation, 2 1/2 years ago, I put the suspension and brakes through a full rebuild (including spindles). New Cooper V rated tired. Took it for a test drive from Baltimore to Wash DC. Merging onto the Capitol Beltway, the left front tire blew. Slammed into the guard wall, which I rode for a while so as to not flip over in traffic. Photos were in my last post about this.

That weekend, I took it to a local body/frame shop, which guaranteed me 3 months service. I bought a parts car for the bumpers, wheels and front sub-frame.

The guy did a good job on straightening the front rails and the body panels I got from Pauls Jag. He begged out on the putting in the subframe and doing the paint. So I removed it from his shop, and slowly drove it home.

It's obvious that the driver's side suspension upright on the subframe is bent up and back. Hopefully, this week I can replace it with the one from the donor car.

What has me worried is that the driver's side rear fender is rubbing on the tire. The driver's side seems to be sitting about an inch lower than the passenger side. Putting the car up on a lift shows no obvious damage to the lower control arm, the shocks or the subframe. The suspensions moves freely on that corner.

My new frame guy thinks that replacing the subframe on the front will move the rear up. I'm rather puzzled by his explanation.

Any thoughts? I'm leaving as soon as the car goes in the new frame shop monday, and won't be back until summer in 2019. I'd love to get this 'straightened' out.

Cheers


Note the excessive camber on the front wheel

Lowered rear rubbing on the tire

Camber and rearward displacement might be visible.

 

Is there a clunk on that side? Perhaps the left rear subframe bush is gonzo. That would account for the 1 inch drop and rearward disposition.

 

I had just replaced all the subframe mounts, as well as the radius arm bush before the accident. I'll crawl under there again to have a look tomorrow.

 

From the photos the front subframe is either too far back, or the front sub frame is so bent the wheels and suspension are bent/located backwards.
I think you should carefully jack up the car, support it, and look first at the subframe location points on the body. If the body and chassis rails were badly bent, and have been somehow "straightened" then the entire subframe may be wrongly located. If the body/subframe mounting points seem OK, then next look at the subframe itself, which may well be dreadfully bent, thus mislocating the suspension arms. It is just possible that the suspension arms are bent, but very unlikely unless the body/subframe is also bent. Of course any or all of these faults may be there. Post again with what you find, with pics if you are unsure about the subframe location points.

The rear being low will be either springs gone, or suspension mounting points gone on the rear subframe/body. The front will not, repeat not, affect it.
Honestly, even though you have clearly been taken for a ride and spent money, if you have serious body mounting misalignment, cut your losses and buy another car. If it is just the subframe, then building up a new suspension on another subframe is relatively easy, I mean a week's work maximum, start to finish, to remove the old one, to build it all up on the new one, fit it and align the front wheels. Then you can fit lovely new brakes, callipers, stub axles, bearings etc etc.

 

Greg,

The upright on the front subframe is definitely bent. The mounting points for the front subframe measure out symmetrical, so I think they are good. The rails that protrude forward from the driver's side front mounting point needed straightening. The fender mounted correctly, and the reveals in the hood are aligned very well, as is the door/fender reveal.

The shock tower is DEFINTELY bent backwards and it's twisted. I watched while the frame guy tried to pull it, and it wasn't going to go. Definitely replacing the subframe will take care of that. I've attached a a couple of pics of the front suspension.






The rear is a mystery. I can find no damage on the rear suspension. It wasn't squatting like this before the accident. The rear driver's side of the car took minimal impact. I've attached two pictures of the rear of the car immediately after the accident.







The impact on the rear was enough to break the bead on the rim.

 

How did you find this body shop to work with? There are Jag specialists who probably could have resolved this for you much sooner. Although I haven't worked with them, necessarily, there are guys in Flemington, NJ, Rockville, MD, Harrisburg, PA, and a few more. I think they could have helped point you in the right direction, even if they couldn't have done the work themselves.

That being said, I hope you've thought through this next shop...

 

The shock absorber reinforcement is certainly bent, but this is not part of the subframe. The top wishbones are clearly misaligned as the top of the shocker tube is not central to it, and the shocker top is tilted forwards to the hole in the wing top inner it fixes to; therefore the stub axle is misaligned, the question being: why. The upright might, repeat might, be bent, but I suggest (from your photos) it is more likely the actual subframe onto which the top wishbone fulcrum is fitted has been bent, thus forcing the wishbone to point rearwards and thus tilt the upright backwards at the top, (or both of these).
The upright is held in place by ball joints, and even if bent, if the balljoints were located properly by the wishbones, the wheel position would be approximately unchanged. Maybe take a careful look at the subframe on the other side and compare? Look carefully at the clearance between the rearmost upper wishbone inner fulcrum and the body; if these are not the same both sides, the subframe has had it.

 

 

 

Scott
We may mean different things by the "upright". I mean the bit between the upper and lower control arms onto which the stub axle and hub are fixed, No 15 in this diagram


Do you mean the vertical bit of the subframe to which the control arms (wishbones) are fixed at their inner ends as in the vertical ends of no. 1 in this diagram: If so, we are in agreement!

The rear suspension squat is very unlikely to be caused by anything other than a bad spring or spring seat, or a bent shocker fixing onto the rear cage, or an actually bent cage. Either way a pretty easy fix, even if another rear cage is needed. The rear squat cannot be caused by anything else, unless the actual chassis rail above the cage is deformed, which while possible is very unlikely.

 

Greg,

I mean as #1. The subframe (upright).

I was going to replace the #15 anyway, as well as the spindle with the one from the donor car. Bearings, rotor, caliper are all coming off my car, as they were just replaced.

 

OK, just a misunderstanding, as in "upright" UK it means 15. You are dead right, as obviously the subframe is bent, just rebuild it all on another subframe and all should be 100% if the chassis pickup points are OK.
Good luck

 

The sub frame is made of a very heavy guage metal. If the sub frame bent the chassis is probably off...way off even if they tried to straighten. I would punt and get a different XJS. There are usually many for sale... typically on CL. You can swap over the good parts that you'd like to keep. This one, as bent up as it was, may never be right.

Its hard to find a good shop. A lot of the good shops are used to doing quick in and out 10k insurance pay jobs. Where there frame straightening equipment was actually designed for modern cars and makes quick work of them.

I bought a crashed xjs chassis once. It was hit on the right side hard enough to put a small bend in the wheel. The sub frame was slightly dented at the impact site but still dimensionally true. However the chassis was bent enough to mis align the door opening. Point is that the subframe are stronger than the chassism.

 

You mention the tire we can see from this side, the left rear, is rubbing on the fender flare. Is that correct? if so, is the right side rubbing equally? "squatting" equally?

 

 

ok, ..is squatting equal on both sides?
You het the left side of the car and the camber is set by the set length of both the bottom arm and top being the halfshaft length. The op is either out or the bottom is in farther...or the fender is in at the top.

 

As the weather was fairly nice yesterday, I was able to pull off the rear wheel and have a look at the rear suspension/subframe.

The shocks looked and felt ok. No sticking.

But, I did see a kink in the subframe on the left side. So it looks like it's time for replacement.

I also thought the clearance between the lower suspension arm and the disc rotor looked pretty tight, but the right side showed about the same amount of clearance




Kink in the rear subframe

Clearance too close? It was about the same on the other side

So, I guess I'm in for both subframes...

 

Rebuilding onto a new rear subframe is pretty straightforward, as once the diff is in place, all your hubs etc will swap into it as-is without any need to dis-assemble them. The disc/arm clearance is normal, by the way. The only two things to watch out for on fixing the diff in place is to (a) ensure the difftop to cage bolts are torqued to spec, loctited and wired. and
(b) there is a casting each side of the diff onto which the inner fulcrums of the lower wishbone pivot. These also pivot through a hole each side of the cage, so there are 4 holes to align each side, and the castings have to be shimmed very carefully to ensure all 4 holes line up, and so that the fulcrum pin, 2 below, can be inserted through them with light-ish tapping and bolted up. It may be that the new cage is so dimensionally close to the old one in this respect that you do not have to touch the casting shims. A trial fit will tell. But if you do have to redo the casting shims, careful trial fitting and shimming is a must, and then once all OK, the shims can only be bolted and loctited finally in place with the inner fulcrum pins removed. Then I very strongly advise the most durable sort of Loctite be used to secure the casting bolts and shims in place.
5, 6, 7 and 8 show what I mean.

 

A quick update on this continuing saga..

When I left the states in December, I dropped the car off with front and rear subframes to a shop I have worked with in the past. They are not a frame shop, but the guy assured me swapping frames was well within his venue. We spent several days going over web pages from Bernard and Jag Lovers. I paid him in full up front, as he insisted.

I have just returned to the states to continue working on this project. Along with the 928 and the TVR.

I found that nothing had been done to the car. The guy has closed the shop. Left the Jag and the subframes outside in a parking lot.

Unf#$&*ing believable.

So now Im just going to bite the bullet and do the job myself. I will find a helper off CL.

He did manage to do one thing. Put a large crease in my newly straightened rear quarter panel.

 

I camr back to play some more in June. I replaced both front and rear subframes, as well as the drivers side upright/spindle. I also ended up replacing the rear shocks. One was a bit tweaked, and was causing the rear end to squat.

I've just returned to Baltimore to finish up. Spent yesterday and today in the paint shop shooting the left side. Tonight I should finish the clear coat.