Okay, Grant, Greg and Doug have all been very helpful with my posts since I overheated last Friday. I have a terrible sense of foreboding....but I am completely open to being patted on the head and set straight.

Here's the update:

Armed with confidence, I refilled the system, went ahead and started her up (even though it burped water ALL OVER the place - the bleed hole and the center fill tube were like geysers!!) and let her idle whilst topping things off. She still burped slightly every now and then, but eventually, the reservoir tank filled, so I capped that. Then I let her keep running. There still wasn't water flowing out of the bleed hole, but vapour/steam was. I also noticed a lot of water vapour out the tailpipe. Finally, I started getting some burps & spits from the bleed hole, so I decided to seal that and move her into the driveway to idle & rinse off the wings, which were a mess.

She continued to idle fine, but the steam out the exhaust persisted, ONLY from the B bank side (see attached pic). The steam also smells foul...toasted/burned smell. Then the temperature started to climb above the center of the barrel gauge. I immediately began backing her into the garage, but she cut off halfway in. I'm now letting her cool down before I decide how I want to re-arrange the garage.

At this point, I have added 5 gallons of mixed coolant to the system (of course, a LOT has been pushed onto the floor, but I very much doubt it would total more than a gallon). I thought that was about the system capacity, isn't it? If that is the case, the system must have been virtually empty, and my assessment of whether or not I have done serious damage is in question.




Now, what say ye??

 

Despite the effort and mess so far, I really don't think the cooling system is fully bled. You want a solid stream coming out of the bleed hole, not a few spits.

Not sure why the engine died. Perhaps coolant splashed where it doesn't belong?

Assuming you get it started, go thru the bleeding process again. This will probably take care of the temp gauge climbing above center.

When that happens, hose down the mess (again) and take her for a spin and see what happens.

Don't be too alarmed at the steam vapor. Sometimes moisture accumulates in the mufflers and takes a long time to burn off. Why only one side? I can't say, but mine does the same from time to time. If the steam vapor from the exhaust is still there after 30 minutes of driving, give a shout.

Cheers
DD

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you have coolant around the sparkplugs and that shorted out the plug causing the stall. Make sure everything is dry and they try rebleeding again.

Sometimes it helps to jack up the left front side, so the bleed plug on the top of the rad is the highest point in the system and wait until you get the geyser out of that point before putting the plug in .

 

Agreed.

That heater hose would have emptied the system. The heater core is a PITA to bleed, so persist with it, making 100% sure that the heater tap arm is DOWN. They do jam, and unless that arm is DOWN, the tap is NOT open, and air in the heater core will reek total havoc.

 

It is also possible that the thermostats are somehow jammed or not functioning. I would change them before trying again.

 

Could water have gotten slurped up somehow from the bleed on the front LH top of the rad into the breather snout on the LH side? Cold start, the AAV inlet isn't to far from the bottom of the breather. Could pull in a little water. A small amount of water makes a TON of steam...

 

This really sounds like a blown head gasket to me. Does the oil look milky? Not always one of the symptoms but if it is, it would confirm it.

 

I keep checking the oil level and oil cap to see if level is rising or if there's evidence of moisure (grey oil), but so far no indication of that. To be fair, though, it hasn't been run much in this condition (though I did idle it for a total of 15 minutes or so in my various attempts to refil the system).

In any case, I haven't been able to work on it since August 9th, and today when I went to try to start her up, she simply would not. She tried a few times, but I cannot get her to sustain - and it's quite rough.

In addition, an immense amount of pressure builds up in the system, even though it technically hasn't run- just cranked a lot. That does not, to me, seem normal. I'm still wondering if compression gases are making it into the cooling system (blown head gasket).

Per some of the suggestions here, and based on my own suspicions, I'm going to go pull the spark plugs for a wetness check. I expect to find some indications on one or more of a coolant leak into the cylinder, most likely on the B bank (citing the aforementioned steam as evidence).

If I find that, and because there were a couple of other issues (oil leak above filter, power steering leak on the rack), I think the right course of action is to pull the engine and effect the multiple repairs that way.

Assuming that to be the case, can anyone point me to a good procedure for engine removal?

Ugh. Grant, where's my beer count at now?!?

 

Because you said gusher when bleeding out the rad and coolant system I'm still thinking that (because of location of said gusher) that water got introduced into the intake system. Even a cup of water is a lot to have gotten sucked into the cylinders...

You'd said that an extreme amount of pressure builds up in the system, which system? and if you meant coolant system I think that might be expected IF the coolant system isn't adequately filled and that it's run long enough that water and coolant starts to boil due to inadequate circulation and rising temps... Is there coolant in the oil OR oil in the coolant. On the caps of the cross pipe or other areas of the coolant system OR on the dipstick OR on the oil cap. I really think you would find water evidence in these areas.

Car might not start for water in the cylinders BUT just not for the reasons you think.

Have you checked for water in the LH breather and or throttle body? Or,,, AAV?

 

Employ a poor person

Depends what tools you have, the best option is to remove the engine and box together there is a thread here if you fancy tackling it >> V12 engine pull

 

Yes, the presure buildup is in the coolant system. Just cranking leads to a significant buildup of pressure. Once I open a cap up, there are gurgling noises all throughout the system...

 

Okay, so I'll check the air intake on the left bank - that might be the culprit in both the non-start and steam-in-exhaust cases. IF I can get that sorted and IF I can get it started, I will try one last time to get the beast filled up....

 

other more experienced and knowledgeable folks will jump in I'm sure (save me),,, but can you describe the pressures? Is it a long whoooosh of air that you get when you open a cap, or are you calling pressure the sound of water moving around, bubbling around,,, in the hoses and pipes when you open up a cap --- after spinning the engine?

 

JayJagJay, this was like a half hour after I had last cranked the engine over (I had paused for dinner!) I went to undo the cap on the reservoir tank and there was a massive gush of air. at the same time, I *heard* gurguling noises from elsewhere in the system - but it wasn't related to turning the engine over as far too long had passed between the two events. In fact, I was quite surprised that there was any pressure in the system at all, as the engine had not really run appreciably other than a few stutters at first.

Brad

 

Not sounding too flash.

Beer count would be MANY.

With the plugs out, and the coil lead out, so NO errant sparks, crank it just a few seconds, (2 to3), and there may be a rush of coolant out of one or more plug holes, and that is what you do NOT want of course.

If compression is getting into the system, then coolant will also find its way into a cylinder or 2.

Engine and trans as a unit, as said, is the way to go, and not that bad. About 8 hours for a 1st timer, and taking it easy. LOTS of things to unplug, and remove etc etc, but certainly NOT rocket science.
I think??? I have a Doco on that somewhere, and I will look, as soon as I sort the coolant leak HAHAHA, on the wifes S Type, BUGGA>

 

Here ya go.

Sorry for the delay, S Type heater taps and I have a Luv/Hate relationship, more the latter.

 

Okay - it has been a very busy time at work, but I was able to get back to Ginger this afternoon. First priority was to remove the plugs, and use my brand new boresight camera to peek into the cylinders.

I did not like what I found.

At the moment, I cannot figure out how to access the photos I've taken, but suffice to say there is green coolant in at least 7 cylinders, on either side of the engine. There is no evidence that any of the coolant in the "B" side came in via the air intake (the paper filter was definitely dry - not wet with coolant). I have not looked at the "A" side filter yet, but does it really matter at this point?

It appears evident to me that the engine must come out, and the status of the head gaskets (and, honestly, the heads themselves, which I am desperately hoping are NOT warped).

Although there is a lot of work ahead, this also means I can address the oil leaks, steering rack bushings and the front "spider" bushings as well - not to mention all of the fuel line tubing and a variety of 'pretty up' efforts for the engine bay and the engine.

So, I am now armed with Grant's "V-12 Removal from an XJ-S Jaguar" and headed off to the Quonset hut (which my wife routinely refers to as "Jabba the Hut")....

Grant, it's a sad thing that A) I don't have you here to help and B) I don't drink beer.

I know this next endeavor will not change the first of those, but it might do the second one....

Brad

 

BUGGA.

Only a phone call away if teh brown stuff really hits the fan. PM you later.

I am amazed hahaha, you own a V12 and dont drink, you just found the main problem.

My wife called the shed, "Dads House" back when the kids were younger and still here, AND I had 8 Jags.

 

Brad
You have our sympathy. I must add that the danger is that the actual block has warped as a result of the coolant loss, which is inevitable if a block overheats sufficiently. I honestly think sourcing another engine might be worth serious consideration. You will still have to make it oiltight, obviously, but a knwn good unit might save you a great deal of fruitless work, only to find the problem is still there.

 

Condolences I shudder at the thought of taking on such a job these days, that said I can assure you that an XJS will be easier than some of the junk I've worked on - the Audi A8 the engine had to be dropped from underneath complete with box and suspension there were zero other options - definitely not a DIY job and costed at 48 hours just to drop and replace the engine - and that is at Audi rates.

Just make sure to park the car somewhere it can stay for a week or three, make sure you have it lifted and well supported because you will be under there countless times, the engine is a big lump and I'll wager that there will be some movement that the stands or whatever must deal with. Just be methodical, make notes, take pictures, when you remove a component put the bolts / screws back where they came from, take Grant's excellent advice and buy some fast food trays with lids that you can label - and use them or you will end up playing jigsaw with nuts and bolts.

Don't disregard the block as Greg mentioned - get yourself a good straight edge often people concentrate on the heads for a blown gasket and it isn't always. You need to check the deck (the block face that the head sits on) pretty thoroughly too, I'm getting the impression as a new XJS owner that once cooked you should plan on a strip and rebuild - best option is not to cook it.

I'd be tempted to follow Greg on this one and follow the find another engine route, at least this way you can get the car going again (assuming the engine is good) and can work on the engine you take out at your leisure - once warped thought I believe that they are essentially scrap, could be wrong on this point though. A scondhand engine will likely cost less than the bill for the rebuild, the engines don't seem that expensive here in the UK - a complete engine and box with 80k miles sold very recently for £550 - I'd have bought his myself except it was too far away and I've nothing to transport one.

On another note I had a crawl under mine yesterday to figure out how to replace the metal fuel lines and was hit with a bomb - the ends nearest the tank have stupid threaded joints (had to be complicated didn't it) and the pipes aren't therefore either a straightforward replace and nor are they available as a spare. Mine aren't badly corroded on the outside but I suspect the inside isn't so good, I don't know if my tools can do the appropriate flare on the pipe end.

If you don't drink beer I recommend spirits and get a second set of hands to assist when you start manhandling.