So I'm back in the market for a Jag! I. Looking at 10-11 XKR's but everyone I seem to call on has had 3 owners.

Is a three owner XK-R undesirable?

 

depends on their reason for selling. Cars like this are often leased for a short term so, like Ferrari's and other high end cars, they are likely to turn owners fairly often. Without the history of the particular car no one can answer your question

 

Yup, the number isn't all that relevant. I was the 4th owner on my XK8 (bought at 87k miles) and it had no issues whatsoever. But it also had a full service history. Like Leeper said, oftentimes first owner is a lease. However, if it was a lease, make sure it was a personal lease and not corporate. After that, these are usually 2nd or 3rd fun cars for people so they change hands often.

Service history is key, and also try and buy a California/Florida?Arizona etc. car. Worth having one shipped to you in you live in the rust belt. I live in Chicago and all 5 of my current cars have come from Georgia, California and S. Carolina.

 

not sure why you'd differentiate between a personal and corporate lease, there's a large percentage of people who lease them using their business as the write off... neither has a correlation to whether it's been taken care of. If they're leasing they know it is a temp car and may or may take pride in it. Verify the owners, you may find that it was a lease then turned in to a dealership, then sold to another dealer thus showing it changed hands 3x... who knows but even with 3 different owners if it checks out that's not a worry. Concur for the most part about Cali, Florida cars but it also depends on where in those states as I would not want one from Lancaster/Palmdale, Mojave, Palm Springs or San Louis Obispo (extremely salty air) areas or Phoenix as their avg temps are extremely high and sun is brutal but at least not rusty. Mine was purchased in Detroit but it was a 3rd or fourth car for a very well off lady who only drove it a few months a year in the summer to Cape Cod.

Look at the history, if available, do not believe a word the dealer tells you it is what they can show you that matters. How many miles, how well was it maintained- ask Cee Jay about tires, ask Q&C to verify the oil was changed every 3 mos, ask Meng about Ctek chargers and you'll be fine. # of owners is irrelevant, it is the quality of the owners that matters. Have a respectable indi or good dealership do a PPI, should run @$150-200 to go over it, don't put much stock in Carfax reports as accuracy is questionable. That's an awesome car, get a good one they're pretty bullet proof and FAAASSSSTTTTT

 

Number of owners means nothing in most cases. My XKR title had changed hands 5 times in 19,000 miles. I could not be happier with now 30,000 on the clock. The only issue to date is one tired catalytic convertor.

 

I would not be hot for 2+ owner car unless that's all there is. Each additional owner makes it just that bit less desirable. Service records are most important, as is check on body/paintwork. Having a clear understanding of the car and it priced accordingly.

 

I don't understand this either.

If it were a specific situation, such as a Jaguar owned Track Demo, OK that makes sense.

Otherwise, who is to say an individual will take better or worse care of it than a Corporation.

Today, I own one vehicle that was a 'corporate lease'. I've owned it for five years now. It had complete service records and was in good condition when I purchased it. Should I have not bought it because of 'who' owned it prior?

 

I have a friend who works for a private leasing company, and oftentimes when "corporate lease" shows up on the CarFax etc., it can mean lots of different things. For example he's seen dealer demos, ex-press cars, ex-service loaners, "executive demos" and cars from exotic car share companies all show up with the first owner as a corporate lease. That type of specific ownership history does not need to be disclosed. It will merely say "corporate lease."

Point is, oftentimes cars that were used in those types of environments are beat to s***. Now, of course there are exceptions and sometimes its just a guy who runs it through his small business for the write-off, as you said. And theres certainly also individuals who beat up on their personal leases.

But generally speaking, a "corporate lease" brand can cover up lots more than a personal lease can.

 

Your first words are "I have a friend", no sense in arguing with a supposed third party entity nor is there anything that proves your assumption that one lease is worse than the other. It is hearsay from a friend but here goes:

For example he's seen dealer demos, ex-press cars, ex-service loaners, "executive demos" and cars from exotic car share companies all show up with the first owner as a corporate lease. and it couldn't happen to cars purchased for cash? Financed? Purchased by trade-in? Leased as an individual? Are you saying that because it is a corp lease they are more able to hide that in documenting ownership or that companies are more likely to purchase these cars than individuals? Can you give us any support on this claim? Please have your friend chime in here to enlighten us

Do you know why they show up with "corp lease"? Because we get a write off. Who is most likely to drive exotic, or semi-exotic cars??? Those who have money, and those people don't often hold cars for more than 2 years AND they want write-offs to save money, that doesn't make them abusive to their cars that makes them smarter tax-wise than those who lease as an individual that is all. It's hardly a gauge to measure how well it was treated. People who lease Toyota's and Kia's most often do so because it makes their payments more palatable, and F&I department+salesperson sold them a line of crap, however they have no idea about economics or they'd buy it but that's the difference between smart and not smart spending save for an economics 101 subject.

That type of specific ownership history does not need to be disclosed. Incorrect - All of those instances would show up as the initial purchase having fairly high miles not the 5-25 miles most "new cars" would have. It will merely say "corporate lease." Again "You'[re inferring that Corp lease is where these gems are either more prevalent OR it is the only instances where they can hide them, asking for some sort of proof here as that is a bold inference on your part. If you see a new car with 150+ miles at a dealership there's something going on but again how said car is bought has no reflection to is previous treatment nor how it will serve the new buyer... that is best gauged with the maintenance history report if you know what to look for rather than type of lease.

 

Last year we were looking for a car for our kid. We were specific and wanted a late model , low mileage , one owner Audi A4 but it had to be brilliant red with tan interior. It took me 2 months doing the search and I found 3 of the exact car located in a dealership in Fl. They were dealer service cars and titled by the dealer. Timing was great as they were 2015 and the dealer just got in their 2016 replacement cars. The cars had 550 , 1050 and 1200 miles on them. We bought the 550 mile one and had it shipped up to NY. The window sticker was $39,5XX and we got it for $32,300. Cost $1100 to ship it to my door. When it came off of the truck it looked brand new. This was my 2nd internet buy sight unseen with about 25 pictures . Carfax listed the car as dealer owned.

 

My feeling has always been that short term owners tend to defer maintenance for the next guy. When you are operating on little or no information you got to have some system even if it's founded on -------?
A succession of 1 year owners is not good. Maybe they beat the car because they knew they wouldn't be around to pay the piper. A succession of 3 year owners is better.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. There's no right or wrong answer here, as we're all speaking from personal experience. The point I'm making is that a car which shows up as a personal vehicle cannot legally have been owned by the entities which I listed, whereas a corporate lease may have been. Its pretty simple.

And thanks for explaining how tax write-offs work. As a CPA, I'm pretty familiar with that.

You're welcome to provide support for all of your claims, which are hearsay, as are mine. To avoid causing any more problems, I will consider this matter closed on my end.

 

Not so fast...
Your initial post on this matter was one that stated that corporate leases may well present a hidden concern, and that your basis of this fact as you presented it is based upon what a "friend" says... that is hardly bringing anything to the table. I, as well as others, don't agree and asked for some sort of proof which was not offered in any sort of way. You were never speaking from experience, as you say, you were speaking from what someone else may or may not have said to you so that is quite a jump to say that is "personal experience". I, as well as others, are asking you to support your claim or have your friend chime in to give us some facts to support that bold statement.

Demo's, dealer exec cars, press cars do not show up as corp leases, or personal leases for that matter, they are not sold nor registered they are held back as MFG cars hence why they do not carry license plates so they do not ever show as "sold" on a car report. (I will be happy to provide you with proof if you care). FYI - states have cracked down heavily over the last several years on dealers letting execs/employees use cars for their own use. Jagtoes example of his son's car being a demo and NOT showing up as a corp lease so that contradicts your statement, I can offer many other such examples too if you wish though I doubt you'd like me to.

To avoid causing any more problems, I will consider this matter closed on my end. The problem is that we'd like you to back your claim not run away when challenged after making a such a brash statement. Show us where corp leases may hold hidden concerns that personal leases do not, where demo's, dealer exec cars, press cars, may be more prevalent in corp leases than personal leases as you said and continue to claim here. There is right and wrong not just opinion as you claim here, we'd like to see ANY supporting evidence of your initial claim... JagToes offered an example refuting your claim that dealer demo's show up as corp lease. We're not talking about which color is best here you've made a bold claim then ask for you to back that with any sort of proof/facts to support it. It doesn't matter what my, or your/my opinion is, it matters what we can prove, you have not offered any proof to your claim aside from what a friend may have said... you didn't say "it was your opinion" in your initial post you said corp leases hide things personal leases do not and to beware, again we ask you to back that in some way not just with your with opinion rather substantiation.

 

My 2009 Jaguar XKR Portfolio Edition was a lease car. It went through 2 lease periods with 2 different lease drivers. Each lease agreement was 2 years in length. When my XKR was new the MSRP was $108,000 for the Portfolio Edition (considered rare with only 200 convertibles imported into the USA) and had the optional $5000 Alcon brake system, and rarely seen Spun Aluminum interior panels vs the wood.

For many drivers, the $108,000 to own the car was not possible back then. So a lease made since. These leases were low mileage leases under the terms and considered short term 2 yr. contracts.

The lease was with Palm Beach Jaguar the largest Jaguar dealer in the southeast. The XKR was always maintained by Palm Beach Jaguar through the entire life of the 2 leases.

When the XKR came up for sale, I called Palm Beach Jaguar and spoke with the Jaguar service writer Allen. I provided the VIN number of the XKR and he spent plenty of time discussing and reviewing the data on his computer system of all maintenance on the XKR. I have a printout of all work performed. Since the lease was sold via Palm Beach Jaguar, the lease agreement stated that Palm Beach Jaguar would service the XKR during the life of each lease. All service of the XKR was minor with one battery being replaced.

When I bought the XKR in May 2013 the car had 13,000 miles and was in showroom condition. To this day, I have only spent $210 for 2 oil changes, and an inspection when first delivered to New Mexico by Garcia Jaguar in El Paso, TX and a trunk interior light bulb. From May 2013 to the present the XKR has performed flawlessly. I now have 17,700 miles on the XKR and it remains in showroom condition.

This 2009 XKR Portfolio Edition convertible is probably one of the best 2009 XKR's Portfolio Editions available presently with the least amount of mileage.

So the bottom line, just because an XK or XKR might have been a lease vehicle does not mean there is a problem. Most of these leases are short term leases and low mileage requirement leases.

Do your homework, complete your due diligence before you buy. I am completely satisfied with my purchase back in May 2013 and bought the XKR at what I considered a great price. I bought the XKR sight unseen after completing my research and have no regrets or buyer's remorse in any way. The XKR was professional transported from Florida to New Mexico. Cost $900 for transport. I only thing I did was replace the wheels and tires in addition to the $210 spent for maintenance.

Click the images to enlarge and click again for a full-screen image.

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off topic but Rich, I'm not usually a fan of after-market wheels on X150's... those look great! Maybe the only ones I've seen that fit the car and look fantastic

 

Thanks Leeper for the compliment.

Because I have the extra large Alcon rotors and brake calipers, (350MM rear and 400 MM front rotors) I had to complete a lot of work to find a vendor that would custom mill the wheels to my exact offsets, bolt pattern and center bore. These wheels were produced by Fastco in Montreal, Canada.

I completed a lot of measurements and dealt direct with the Director of Technical Engineering at Fastco. He was great and took the extra effort to produce the wheels or me. Since then a few other 2009 XKR Portfolio owners with the Alcon brake system now own the same wheels.

Fastco Canada is the largest manufacturer of aftermarket wheels in the country of Canada, located in Montreal.

Link: Fastco |

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I am going to admit that I have not read all the posts. Surprising to me, when I was looking for a newer Aston Martin, how many owners there were in such a few years. Many owners of high end cars buy these cars as toys and get tired of them very quickly. I'm not saying the XK is in the same class as Aston, but for the late model cars, most are off lease after 3 years. Now you are already on the 2nd owner. I keep my new car forever, but I'm the exception. Checking service records might help. It's funny, I'm sure a Honda or Toyota will probably have the same owner for longer than our cars.....

 

The thing Aston Martin has going for them is the name. XKRs pretty much trounce Astons on a regular basis, but because Aston supposedly has a better Pedigree (something to do with Jaguar-of-old being unreliable. Go figure) than Jaguar does. The typical Aston Martin buyer, I'd assume, will happily pay more for a slightly less spectacular car because of name alone.

I hate to bring this into it, but it's parallel to iPhone buyers... they gladly pay more for inferior phones (deal with it, they are) just to get into the clique. They think highly of themselves for it. Many things are status symbols for many different people, and each may have their own.
So there ya go.

 

Cee Jay, the Aston takes many more expensive manufacturing steps that avoids the use of plastic trim at great expense. For some people, its worth it, the used market reflects that. The fact that the car even gets sold at all reflects that to.

The squared straight line between front fenders and hood on the Jagaur vs the deep flowing curving inwards set on the Aston makes for a much better looking nose. It also drastically increases the 3d size of the part when being stamped making it far more expensive.

The rear spoiler on the Aston requires the forging surfaces to be disassembled and reassembled in order to make the angles present, the Jaguar, snaps a plastic piece on top at reduced expense.

You can have the cheaper to manufacture Bargain XKR, or the higher level of craftsmanship at great expense of the DB9.

For me, its not the number of owners, but the time of ownership. 6 months? I get a little shakey! So long as each has 2-3 years, its probably not a problem car.

 

...... and yet they STILL get spanked. My point is still valid.