Just killing some time before I'm off to Los Angeles and came across this video:

 

I can understand how this can happen. I've seen guys get a little out of control while doing parade lap at Lime Rock park in Ct.

 

There is a difference between all out racing and track days with local clubs. Track days typically have rules including driver classification based on experience and skill, restricted passing zones, (often) teachers in the car, etc. There are still occasional incidents but they're much rarer than in all out racing where anything goes.

I have enjoyed track days and I'm less aggressive than some of the friends I go with and more than others, and I'm definitely not looking to wreck or damage my car.

It is possible to have fun at the track without it being overly dangerous.

 

While racing competitively for many years, I also attended many open track days with my Formula Ford, Formula F2000 and my Formula F1000 race car. Although the open track days had rules and safety regulations, I witnessed drivers rolling their very nice street cars, tearing up their very nice street cars and causing $100's and thousands of $$ of ware and tear on the vehicles namely brakes, brake pads, rotors, tires etc.

While it is fun and most of the time events like I listed here don't happen, there is still the strong possibility that an accident can occur. Once a driver loses control of the ride, he simply goes with the car wherever it goes. Allot depends on the sanctioning group that puts these open track days together and how they are organized.

My advice is just be careful, understand the abuse that your street car will take and what potential costs might be to repair a beautiful sports car tstreet machine.

I know one thing, none of my premium sports cars will see any open track days.

Thanks for starting this thread.

 

Tracking a road car definitely isn't something to be taken lightly, or something you do with a casual interest. I used to see that more in the past but costs have risen to the point that it's mostly well-heeled and serious track enthusiasts now.

They spend a fortune on driving schools and track days where they hone their high performance driving skills. They buy expensive cars that perform at very high levels, and it's not unusual to see more cars worth over $100,000 than under. I think this is the first year that track insurance will be more readily available in Canada, and we all track with the knowledge that if we stuffed it into a wall that it was a complete loss. Definitely a very serious hobby by those with this specific passion, deep pockets, and a sober understanding of the risks.

I had my XKR on track 24 hours after picking it up, and completed my Viper TA's break-in miles on the way to the track a week after buying it last year. I met the owners of a brand new '14 911 GT3 and a '15 911 GT3 that came straight to the track, along with numerous other top rated performance cars.

Tracking is obviously not for everyone, and those that don't want to do it for various reasons definitely shouldn't. Premium sporty and sports cars are appealing for many reasons, but few can survive the stresses of that aggressive track use. As an example, a track friend bought a C7 Stingray with the track focused Z51 package last year and took it to the track once he completed the break-in miles. It overheated engine oil and coolant, transmission fluid, completely wore out it's rear brake pads and nearly the front tires, and the tranny heat seized the two electric valves in the exhaust system...all in one track day! GM has not fixes so he's been upgrading and modding those systems ever since and hopes to have it ready for its second track day this summer. It appears that even the C7 Z06 has its challenges handling track duty.

Tracking a road car definitely has its challenges and risks, and while many could enjoy some of the performance potential of their prized possessions on the race track, that becomes increasingly more difficult as your skill and demands increase.

Bruce

 

Pure madness, on another topic, i would never dyno my car was watching some dyno failures like this video, don't think i would thrust it.

 

There's "race" and there's "track" - I'm not interested in trying to beat someone else, or even to beat my own time. But I did enjoy taking the 75 round the Nordschleife, because it's the only place I have ever been able to use the car's full potential in relative safety.

On a track, you know which way the road goes, you know there are no potholes or roadworks, and you know there's no-one coming the other way. That means you can push the car harder with a much lower risk of killing/injuring yourself or some innocent party - on the track, at least everyone is there because they want to be and they know that they're taking a risk. And you can increase your safety by wearing a helmet, if you want.

But the main thing is that you can do it for fun, you don't have to race. I know I'm not the fastest out there, not by a long way, and I'm not interested in pushing the car to the absolute limit. But doing the equivalent of 'canyon carving' without worrying about getting a ticket or having a head-on, that's really enjoyable.

 

Oh, as a PS: I recognise most of those locations on the Nordschleife as notorious blackspots for the foolish/unwary. The Foxhole into Adenauer-Forst (deep dip then uphill into uncambered left), Kallenhard (sharp downhill right), Schwedenkreuz (left over crest), Wippermann into Eschbach (uphill right into crest). Ignoring the race cars, the majority of touristenfahrten crashes shown are in the wet or are people really going for it, often in track-modified cars - 'obvious' race cars are not allowed on tourist days, so the racers keep them looking relatively stock.

If you do your homework before you go, you know about these things - and you need to take it easy for a lap or two until you've identified where they are. But this is less of an issue at other tracks - it doesn't take long to learn the corners on a normal circuit (learn, not perfect!).

 

As once again the Nordschleife was mentioned and racing/tracking etc .... you all do realize that mist people are driving their car faster to the Ring than on the Ring. Don't misconstrued the 55mph on highways here and the "insanity" of reaching 130mph on a track. Just in January on my way back from skiing in Austria on the Autobahn to Frankfurt I did 120-130mph in FWD Ford Kuga/Escape while we had a mixture of rain and snow and I was constantly passed by faster drivers.

 

Great post Bruce and so well stated.

 

Hey Bruce,
A friend who bought a Z51 equipped Corvette last year with the 6 spd automatic has experienced the overheating of the transmission within the first 15 minutes of tracking it each time he's taken it to the track. After doing quite a bit of research and visiting on the C7 Corvette forums, he's discovered this has been a far too common occurance, and Chevy has not been too cooperative (although they are aware of the problem). A number of owners have negotiated car exchanges for manual tranny cars. He's negotiating right now but considering a lawsuit, as well. I don't think they've had the problem with the new 8 speed auto.

The old adage, "never buy a first year car" seems to be true, once again.

 

True - I didn't do 300 km/h on the 'Ring, but then the autobahn doesn't have any corners. I probably hit over 200 going up Kesselchen, but I was too busy watching for traffic & picking my braking point to actually look!

As you'll see in the 'Ring videos, it isn't straight-line speed that causes most of the problems. It's cornering too fast, particularly in the wet, on a track that has very little runoff area. Occasionally it's other drivers, particularly bikes, not checking behind before taking a racing line. But mostly it's lack of grip - entry speed too high, tyres not wide enough, poor choice of braking point so the car becomes unsettled, too much power through the apex, etc.

 

Even with track insurance which is extremely expensive and comes with a huge deductible tracking a car with other cars on the track is precarious. Tracking is also very hard on cars and depreciates the resale value. I would rent a track car for the experience with appropriate insurance, but not a chance I will subject my cars to this risk. I like knowing my cars are pristine condition and have not been pushed to their limits.

 

Whereas I feel sad that I can't really use my car's capabilities safely anywhere but on a track. I wouldn't want to do it regularly, but once every year or two I'm prepared to take the calculated risk.

 

Expense
Deductibles
Precarious risk
Wear and tear
Depreciation
Resale value
Threat to pristine condition
Pushing to the limits


Wow, you can certainly justify your decision every which way...but can you understand track enthusiasts considering the same and not being deterred? Some would say it's criminal to buy some cars and not track them

 

Not sure I'd go that far - but unless you want to take the even greater risk of driving like a nutter on public roads, you'll never really appreciate what the car is capable of if you never drive it on either a track or a private/closed road.

But I understand where you're coming from, Glenn - I guess Bruce & I just have a different appetite for risk. I'm not that interested in track driving for the sake of it; it wouldn't be as much fun to drive some rented track weapon.

 

My friends overheating tranny is the 7 speed manual. He's adding an additional tranny cooler and heat wrapping the valves in the exhaust next to it so they won't seize again...hopefully! Race pads, track alignment to preserve the tires, Z06 front grill that allows more air flow, new rad and oil cooler, etc.


His GT-R suffered from the same limited thermal capacity and he's improved all the same type of things. Manufacturers design the cars for the 3 or 4 hot laps to set the all important lap times needed by marketing. Few cars are designed for a 30 minute lapping session with a hot shoe driver.

 

This one has an XKR Coupe tagging the wall at 2:13

 

Whilst it is obvious that a 'standard' road car is not a racing car, track days are only way to enjoy most of the XKR's performance potential for more than a few moments. (i.e. Not on a public road)

Having enjoyed track days for over 20 years without ever damaging a car, other than increased wear, I find the tone of some on this thread disappointing.

Since when did Jaguar drivers criticise each other for an enthusiasm for spirited driving? At the last Jag Club track day I attended, there were over 30 cars, mostly Jags - and we had a blast. I would hate to see someone miss out on the opportunity to enjoy the performance of the car, along with the skills gained and the camaraderie shared, because of this negative attitude.

Yes, it will increase wear, and yes, there's risk. But seriously - we're driving a 5.0L Supercharged vehicle. Just how steep are the hills around you that this is a necessary specification?

 

Exactly! I'm more worried driving my cars on public roads with everyone texting on their cell phones, eating, etc, and the new Viper draws too much attention when parked to feel safe leaving it. I'm sure it sounds strange, but I feel the track events I do are actually pretty safe with minimal risk. Always the same very experienced guys driving expensive hardware and everyone is professional and considerate. We've all trained extensively to do this as safely as possible. I'd be scared to death to go out on the Ring with the general public, or do lapping days with a wide mix of driver skill levels.


The only wear and tear I seem to experience is normal consumables like tires. I did 14 open track days last summer and didn't even go through a set of pads, and still on the original rear tires after replacing the fronts after 8 or 9 days. I've don't think I've ever worn out a non-consumable part on any of the four cars I've tracked over many years...not so much as a ball joint or wheel bearing. I only tracked the '10 XKR 5 or 6 times, but it seemed very robust in all the wear and problem prone areas.


Depreciation isn't really an issue as in the first year you'll lose $40k on a new $120k car whether you drive it much or not. I put clear film on all of the abrasion prone areas on my new Viper TA as soon as I got it and could peel it off at anytime to expose perfect paint. When I sell it I'll have enjoyed it more than the vast majority, and maintain it in pristine condition for myself, which should satisfy the next owner if I should ever sell it. I sold my 1994 Supra TT last summer for astronomical money after tracking it relentlessly starting in 2002. I had the paint swirls buffed out for the first time after 150,000 kms and it came up beautiful.


It just doesn't make sense to me to be afraid to enjoy driving a beautiful car often, and as its designers intended on the track if that's your thing