Hey guys
Any advice about lowering intercooler temperatures on our cars? Especially on cars with upgraded pulley temperatures are a little bit higher than stock, and during track days intake really heats up, over 140 on warm track days on my car.
from My research Mercedes guys have been splitting intercooler coolant flow for a while now on e55 with a similar intercooler/supercharged system. In fact I met a guy at a drag strip with an e55 with a split intercooler where he was putting in ice cubes in the coolant tank before his runs. Said his Intake temps have dropped dramaticly.
Any ideas or experience In this area?

 

I don't think it would be particularly difficult besides packaging and finding an adjustable thermostatic selector valve. That way you could run a split system that as long as the cooled coolant is colder than ambient temps it would bypass the air to water cooler. It it wasn't the valve would have it go through the air cooler as well. If you expect the thermal delta to be high, have it run through the air to coolant first and then the water chiller. You just wouldn't want to try and cool the ambient air.

Packaging would need a decent fill opening for ice and some method of draining it. The water to coolant unit could be a salvaged water heater (think 60's Ford's for size).

In drag racing some folks were running a dry NOS system spraying the air to water radiator to 'freeze' it. You could do the same with a Co2 system as long as it didn't get sucked into the engine.

 

At least one vendor offers an intercooler upgrade. Also, Google for a USA vendor that uses AC to reduce intake air temp.

 

Paramount-performance offers a larger heat exchanger. It is easy to split the intercooler circuit from the main radiator and add an ice tank / expansion tank but.... packaging is a problem.
Meth injection may be a better option and will chill below ambient

 

Are you sure you are measuring IAT from IAT2 on the intake and not from OBD port which measures from MAF's.? I think.

 

"KILLER CHILLER". It uses the A/C charge to cool an additional "A/C/Water" intercooler.

 

With killer chiller A/C cuts off at WOT but at least with k/c you do start off with cooler water if you split the system and don't mind losing a/c performance in the cabin. Meth injection does not have these problems but again packaging and injection location is a problem

 

The route I will be taking when I get to this point will be the Killer Chiller.

Yes, it uses the AC system to cool the intercooler water and yes, the AC needs to be on. The power draw of the AC compressor is somewhere around 8-12 hp. As a comparison, the supercharger with stock pullies draws somewhere around 25 hp, if I recall the Eaton white papers correctly... which I could very well not be.

Ford and Chevy guys report 40-50 hp gains with just a swap to the KC. The KC costs about $800. Factor in having the AC system evacuated and recharged for about $100, and compare those gains to what you get from a ~$1300 pulley and tune that's only going to add more heat to the system, and it should be a no brainer. Now... add that pulley and tune on top of the KC, and get ready for some serious business.

I see the KC as being beneficial on several fronts. For one, it will drop intake temps to below ambient when off boost, will keep the rise in IAT to a minimum, and will allow for a quicker recovery post pull. For another, cooler intake temps will have a modest effect on lowering engine coolant temps. And for a 3rd, it will reduce the thermal load on the engine coolant.

I've seen it mentioned that the pipe that connects the intercooler to the radiator has a negligible effect on ic water temps, but I strongly disagree. After having monitored IATs for about ten days and noticing the trend that my IATs consistently split the difference between ambient air temp and engine coolant temp, regardless of how hard or easy, or how fast or slow I drive, and how the intake temps rise with the coolant temps upon cold start while sitting in my garage, I am willing to strongly disagree that coolant and ic water temps are exclusive from each other.

I had considered isolating the ic system from the engine cooling system, but realize that my ic water temps will never be brought below ambient, and will still have a heat exchanger limiting airflow to the radiator.

With the removal of the heat exchanger and it's replacement with the KC, you will massively drop IATs, pick up tremendous lost horsepower, will reduce the workload of and improve the efficiency of the engine cooling system, and will quite possibly extend the life of all the fiddly plastic coolant parts and maybe even the water pump itself. After having spent a short time with this car, I feel that thermal management is its Achilles Heel.

The only downside to the KC is that you need to run your AC, but as a spring-summer-fall toy in Utah, my AC is running all the time anyway.

 

Okay but I thought we do not have a separate intercooler, we get the coolant from the radiator so there is nothing to upgrade, referring to the post about upgraded intercooler.
as for the killer chiller wouldn't it be trying to cool the entire system instead of just an intake since the intake is connected to the main radiator?

 

Mandrake, how are you measuring the IAT temps ? Most apps such as torque or other devices that read from the OBD port, actually read IAT temps at the MAF sensors NOT the actual IAT that is located on the back of the s/c. There is a big difference. If you notice IAT temps going down when you accelerate then you are definitely pulling IAT temps from the MAF's which is incorrect.
You need to be reading from the actual IAT. SDD will allow you to do this not sure if there is another way or not.

 

Mufc, I'm using an AutoMeter DashLink in my '10 XKR, and I'm fairly certain it reads IAT2, as evidenced by the attached picture. Additionally, no, my IAT does not go down as I increase my speed. Furthermore, when driven hard and then shut down (think canyon run with a stop at the top), upon restart, my IAT is even higher due to the heat soak from sitting.

 

If your actual IAT is 165f your car would be pulling timing like crazy to avoid detonation, power would be down massively, your car would also be dumping boost.
I am pretty convinced your readings are coming from the MAF sensors.

 

So what you're saying is that the air that's entering the intake horns located in front of all heat exchangers, traveling about a foot, passing through the airbox, and then traveling about another six inches to reach the MAF is somehow heating up 60°F over ambient in that distance? Come on man... think about that real hard. What's heating it up? How come I can go for a drive in the middle of the night when the ambient temps are as low as 45°F in the mountain passes, yet my IATs are still over 100°F and the coolant is around 185°F? Why don't my IATs drop as I drive, and why, when starting from cold, they rise as the coolant temp rises? Finally, tell me why, when I just went out and unplugged both MAF sensors, did I still get an IAT reading with the car running?

DashLink reads IAT2, period.

 

I don't think torque pro reads mafs temps either , since they hover way higher than ambient temps.
Anyways let's figure out how to lower the temps to get the lost to heat hp back

 

Disconnect both MAF's and start the car and see what happens to your "IAT' temps.

 

How would you then explain IAT temps going up during a high speed run at high load if it was off the MAFs?

 

No . The two circuits only fill from the same resivuar , and do not circulate as one !
This has all been discussed before ,
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ficient-73789/

It's not worth seperateing them .
Although I seperated mine but for a differant reason ,
I hit an animal witch broke the IC pump amongst other damage , and it poured both the engine coolant and the IC coolant out the broken pump leaving me stranded . I now have a slightly better chance of remaining mobile in such an event .

 

So we do have a separate radiator for the intake?
Would putting an additional fan on that radiator help? or maybe add a spray nozzle to mist the unit for better cooling?

 

yes of course to all options . though in my experience the capacity tank and the pump upgrade is sufficient and noticeable .

 

@Datsports, Packaging rears it's ugly head again. That spot is where the air cleaners are on the '07 and up XKR's. One on each side of the radiator group. There is some wiggle room under the expansion tank (by the cowl on ours) but I'm not sure if it would burp correctly.

@AlexJag, yes, there is another cooling circuit with a radiator and electric pump up in the nose. I thought the pump behind the radiator was for the IC when I first got the car but it's the aux 'heating' pump to supply hot coolant to the HVAC stuff inside the cabin.

One thing I don't think a lot of folks think about is how the cooling system actually works. As the coolant flows through the cores it either heats or cools the fluid using dwell time. If the dwell time is balanced the heat gained at the intake will dissipate at the radiator. If the dwell time is too short or too long they system won't be as efficient, either not pulling heat out of the intake or dissipating it out of the radiator. I'm going to assume the Jaguar engineers designed the system correctly. The amount of fluid in the system acts should not affect the cooling efficiency but will hide deficiencies. If I had one thing to improve on it would be the radiator efficiency, either with a pusher fan or what I found, basic dirt and debris build up on the fins. Mine had piles of grass clippings and other debris between the coolant and oil radiators, the AC evaporator and the I/C radiator. I used a 2" nylon flue brush to clean mine and I think I got 40% of it out that filled a gallon bucket.