Sorry I use this forum in case I can find talentuous advice from Mechanic here.

I brought the car in for an annual service the 25th March ( 3 months in advance), then for a tire changes and alignment the 31st, and i drove to Portugal the 1st, upon starting when cold i found the idle to be high and taking much time to reach 750 like before. They charged 60 euros vat included a liter of Mobil 1 0w40.

I brought the car in the 7th to have it checked, they said "problem motor".

they did not resolve the idle taking so long to reach 750, but said the car was fine, that it was not an error anymore. When I got it back the car accelerated alone, when I started it when cold. it does that 50% of the time.
3 weeks I am being told it is in the hands of engineers at AML UK but nothing happen. Yesterday we were told it was assigned to an engineer for high priority but again nothing happened.


here is some videos.

when car accelerate alone when cold

taking so long to only reach 900 (instead of 750), car is lightly trembling at idle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxHw...ature=youtu.be
Modify message


No error messages with the OBDII. They tested misfire nothing. Some says a 1-2 seconds misfire will not be detected by OBDII.
They cleaned throttle body, they changed the air filters twice that were changed 15 days ago with the annual service, with new programation of the car and transmission.

Since the problem aggravated, do you guys think they may have cracked a pvc intake or an air filter box?
I saw them doing a test with brake cleaner on top of the engine only ( no leaks) but I did not see them doing it around the air filter box located in front of the front wheels. No smoke machine to detect leaks available.

last monday I requested we do a smoke check which they did and sent the data to AML UK. Data seems different from right to left engine.

A friend on AMOC forum said if they have not find the problem in 23 days and it has aggravated, there is chance the car will no longer run in the next 20 days, if they go by guessing things and taking it appart etc...

car runs good otherwise but you will not notice a misfire when hot, I guess 2 or 3 bad coils are the root cause.
what could have aggravated the problem otherwise, programations or changing the air filters?


-bad motor mounts
-bad transmission mounts
-idle valve controller
-MAF mass air flow
- 0 ring seal
-fuel injection system
- bad coils, bad plugs

 

It's minor, the computer is trying to compensate, perhaps it's getting wrong signal or it has the wrong program. It would run rough if it had a vacuum leak.

 

It runs perfect, but a light misfire will not be noticeable, i fell like when the car was hot on my way to Portugal when i accelerated a bit, like if it was using 9-10 cylinders but not 12, and since the OBDII will not notice a small misfire, i think a few coils are acting weird. or the Mass air flow.
they downloaded many program and reupdated them bring it back as factory default etc...

Thanks for your response.

Other advices:

"Sorry but I cannot really help much more remotely, away from the car.
Hopefully they sprayed brake CLEANER and not brake FLUID to check for air leaks but a far more professional way is with a proper diagnostics smoke machine which lightly pressurizes the intake system with........you guessed it........smoke.
The transmission is likely to be clattering with an irratic idle anyway.
OBD2 will pick up a regular misfire and throw a check engine light, but not a minor misfire for a second or two.
If they reprogrammed the ECU and made it worse, or it was not as bad before, I would take it back and insist they fix it."


"That sounds more like an air leak than a misfire.

To explain.....

The car has an electronically controlled idle speed so that as engine load changes, such as power steering on full lock, heavy electrical use or air con, the throttle is fettled to keep the idle speed as specified.

Surging is common because if there is something altering faster than the electronics can physically keep up with, the throttle is being opened and closed continuously in an attenpt to find the correct speed.

A single cylinder misfire will clearly reduce output by 1/12th, so if this is a smooth cut, ie totally failed coil/plug, then the car can easily compensate by feathering the throttle a little more to bring the speed up. If it is a random misfire, the car will hunt, trying to compensate for a continually altering requirement.

Similar case with an air leak. This is usually a hose or connection, usually rubber or gasket, that will alter with engine movement and temperature, so the car will again keep trying to compensate for a moving "target". This is due to the mixture continually changing in an attempt to set fuel mixture control correct as seen by the O2 sensors.

The other common cause for this "hunting" or "surging", is an innaccurate seal on the throttle butterfly caused by carbon, or in the case of our V12 Astons, oil fouling of the throttle body. As this is the esalest to check and cure, I would take a look here first before jumping in on the coils and plugs.

Hope that helps."

a friend more pesimist but direct , thank you

"I think that when you get to this point, tinkering may do more damage than good. As i recall the initital issue was not that serious. Now you say the techs mentioned things like "transmission issues". The situation turns like the song "Everything is swell, madame la Marquise".
if you give it 20 more days I am sure the car will no longer run. If after 25 days they all searching and things have gotten worst, I have no confidence they will find anything in the next 25 days.

When I have a problem like this that gets worst as people look into it, I stop and retrace. This cant be that bad, but you need to spare the time. In retrospect you may now understand why we were worried about you not doing a serious PPI at a AM dealer. But I also wonder why the car was just fine when you got it, then you had the service and things went to bits.
Anyway, the guys in spain surely mean well but how many rapides have they fixed to date? That is an important question on cars of this caliber.

You got to talk to an AM dealer that is versed fixing many of these cars otherwise you are the experiment. What makes me say that is the brake cleaner spray. This is a 2013 car at a 2013 AM delaership. I would expect 2013 tools to debug the thing.

I am sure they are many good techs in europe who know these cars. Search and find one. You mentioned some AM tech from the UK. well how many Rapide did he fix? Is he a Rapide expert? what makes him? Because clearly that is what you will need if you want to stop the aggravation."

 

Have they checked the cold start sensor and also the IAC (idle air control) . If the smoke test didn't detect a vacuum leak and there are no miss fire codes I would look at the idle control system.

 

thank you Jagtoes, I emailed to Andy Palmer the Ceo and he responded in 10 minutes that he will have his team to give an immediate attention.

 

That's why my dealer charges more to work on Aston Martin than they do for Lotus or any other marques like Ferrari.

 

IS THAT A WATER TEMP. GAUGE !!!!!!!!! :icon_idea1 :

 

My xkr did that hunting up and down and had idle issues. Did all the cleaning, throttle body etc, new maf sensors, filters and the rest. Dealer couldn't get it sorted. Then on a car outing i met a guy who specialised in servicing top marques, he said he would have a look. He gave the car a retune and never had a problem since. Said the ECU wanted to be updated.

 

Yes it is what they think it is, a thermostat, a water temperature gauge or the sender to the gauge. Thank you

 

Thank you Powerhouse for your infos, they did many re programations already. not sure of it was well done though

 

the f type R is attractive, in term of modern engine, light weight / performance, the rear is even better than the front.

 

I will probably got my car back today, they were kind to let me have it most of the time at home during their investigation 8 and it was running so solid all the time just this little glitch when cold a few seconds sometimes) , maybe only 12-15 days at the dealership on 45.
An engineer come and stayed 3 days, they have updated the 8 air sensors, 2 MAF sensors, all spark plugs and a small adjustment with the idle vale controller, misfire relearning, road test and i should be good to go. The warranty has paid everything, since 42 days I am off the warranty but the problem started in time.

The warranty were very brilliant with communication, i never seen this with Jaguar in 14 years! from 7 am to a full sunday, i was getting replies from the warranty person!

hopefully its all good in the hood now. Tomorrow finally a good polish, done by my friend from south America with his heart.

 

I meant to share with you a new discovery. I found good wax to be much better than ceramic in my situation. The ceramic attracts dust like crazy because it has an electric charge, also the surface is very rough. So I took it all off. Wax was much deeper shine on black and does not attract dust, and very easy and safe to simply blow what little dust that does settle.

I will continue to use ceramic on wheels and inside the door where water collects. Basically ceramic is only for repelling water.

 

I stick with wax, I like the beading of it better than the way ceramic moves the water.

 

Yes and let me tell you ceramic aint easy to remove. Plus the damn thing is abrasive as hell. SO when you are removing it by buffing, you are cutting. Also, your buffer will not go where you once could apply by hand, those areas you are rubbing off by hand. I did find some oil helpful in getting under the ceramic/acrylic coating and lubricity.

 

Which wax is it? I bought the nano wax/ceramic supernatural, the top was dry out( I could'nt used it) bottom was ok but then half less. i indeed used a karnauba wax i have that is much simple to use. I ma getting my car today and will bring it back tuesday for more tests, there is still a dip in rpm when started consecutivly when cold. They want do things the bets they can I guess and i was asked to keep my taxis bills to see what will be done at the end when the car is fixed, will have it for the WE again.

 

Hi,
Since it was an experiment, I used regular liquid caranuba wax. And the results were fantastic. However I polish with Scholls S40 -its the absolute finest polish. The black paint on the Jaguar is very soft and even Menzerna 4500 leaves very small swirls. Scholl S40 is like glass. I got some pinnacle wax, love it.

You should make sure they let you keep your old parts when they change sensors and computers. This way you get paid for your time and will have backup parts.

I had horrible experience with Michelin tires- they split on me- both of them.

 

Thank you, Michelin is the worst brand on earth, kind of no caracter tire medium bad everywhere that last? when you do not kill the tire or yourself?
I do not know what good brand is made in this country france, maybe hermes?
I keep saying it but these guys swear with the pilot **** michelin, I lost my US daughter Beatrice in italy, she was abducted and they got a fraudulent custody, and i do not like italy but I buy Pirelli.

I have been triggerred with bringing this car for 55 days, they swear all is fine now, it is hope to who complain and who does not complain (depend if you have the warranty or not, if you don't have warranty it seems the owners are saying nothing, or are noticing nothing) , some v12 start like they will stalled in 2 sec, some accelerates, its like it is. you have to go with the flow and some will burn their engine while no signal showing up.
I do not regret cause i love the car, its too beautiful, in the street when i watch it i can't believe its mine. A whole motor health check was done, compressions everything is perfect. The warranty told me it was not great for spark plugs and O2 sensors to be started on and on when cold for test.

thanks for sharing the wax product, i have not done anything yet to my car. Every week the dealer clean it for me.
Thanks for your point, i saw my 2 ex Maf sensor and the spark plugs, i will ask if i can take them tuesday.

The economy is so bad in france people can feed themselve well, they do not even have enough vitamins or stuff in their system to work with care and attention, and you see that can of defect and problems, i am really not surprised.

 

Please have a look at this thread on MB forums. Which is where I would focus because most people who have AM don't necessarily share their experiences, and there are so few of them anyway.
One thing you know for sure is that its a MB problem and not an AM problem. Your AM29 engine is used in some MBs I believe and for sure you have an MB Throttle Body.
Rough idle at startup? Before replacing your $600 throttle body, fix it for FREE! - MBWorld.org Forums

 

thank you, when i click n your link i am going to ebay listing, i let my car again a last time, as the technicians think its perfect now but the warranty wanted to go the extra mile to please me as they said, i think my car is fixed now, i wait until friday but i guess it be the last time and i can enjoy it. It runs very well as always and start well now. They already trade the throttle body the motor is doing the same, we have not updated the 2 ECU plate. I noticed there is much less xkr after 2011 on sale in france, it used to be a dozain used and there is only one now, but 5 xkrs now? strange...maybe the xkr will become collectible if it become so rare, how about in the us?

dealer is installing me a nav update 2 dics 2 hours, download which i bought online indeed, very kind , i hope to enjoy it after and be free. I am not going to buy a warranty. (2900e)

http://www.lacentrale.fr/listing_aut...ne=&reference=