Checking VIN for Lemon Law Buyback

So I'm looking at a 2002 XKR . Owner claims it was a buyback because Jaguar could not fix an A/C problem after 3 attempts. Can anyone provide guidance on verifying that claim. Thanks

 

I worked out a deal with Jaguar to buy back my STR, avoiding court, etc and several years later I checked the VIN and they had branded it with a NJ certificate of destruction.

 

First thing is to inquire in the correct Forum. You're in the X150 Forum, for 2007-2015 XK/XKR models. You should have posted in the X100 Forum, for XK8 models from 1996 - 2006:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xk8-xkr-x100-17/

Lemon laws vary by state. You need the state in order to search those records. BUYER BEWARE! Read this - you may change your mind and look for another car.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...e-bought-back/

 

I had an A/C problem with my 2000 XK8. One of the AC lines leaked and the Jaguar one-piece line went from the front somewhere, under the engine, around a couple parts, then through the firewall. Massive project. I did find a TWO-part line that made the job MUCH easier, but it was still a gigantic PITA. At least I didn't have to pull the engine, which was what the one-piece line required.

 

Does that mean that your STR was, in fact, destroyed - sent to the crusher? Surprisingly, maybe (probably) not!

If an insurance company wants to recoup some of their loss from a car it "totalled" by selling it at auction for parts, it will want to prevent that car from road use to limit their liability in the event that car is driven and is subsequently involved in an accident. That's where the Certificate of Destruction comes in - it's a CYA document, to protect the insurance company if the buyer doesn't strip it down for parts and, instead, fixes it up (or not) and sells it as a driver with that "branded" title.
https://www.cartitles.com/what-is-a-...f-destruction/

It's not easy to destroy a Jaguar. They're big cats with seven lives!

 

I’m not certain a manufacturer buyback would be considered an insurance claim.....when I pulled the VIN it stated Jaguar had it branded with a COD in NJ (their US headquarters). I offered this info to the OP as a real world experience with Jaguar lemons. No idea if this is what they do every time, but it is what they did for mine in 2005 and it wasn’t even an official lemon claim.

 

It's my fault that I confused you with the example I used - a totalled wreck (salvage title) sold at auction by an insurance company. That's a common type of transaction that is familiar to most gearheads. I used that example because it's similar to a manufacturer's Lemon Law buyback.

The principle is the same for both insurance company and vehicle manufacturer. When a car is "totalled" by an insurance company, they pay the owner (the insured) in exchange for taking possession of the car and the title - the insurance company then owns the car. It's the same thing for a manufacturer's buyback. They pay the owner in exchange for taking possession of the car and the title - the manufacturer owns the car.

What happens to the car? It has value, so why crush it if it can legally be sold and the proceeds used to reduce the loss?

Depending on state law, other considerations may require vehicles to be crushed, such as vehicles seized by police to deter street racing.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19339955

 

My point is that a Lemon Law buyback with Certificate of Destruction doesn't guarantee that the vehicle was destroyed. As I explained above, that COD protects the owner (insurance company or vehicle manufacturer) if they sell that vehicle for parts and it is subsequently driven and involved in an accident.

 

Do they change the VIN? If not it should be pretty easy to find out if a branded VIN was a lemon car besides that fact that branded title cars are a niche market.

 

Mine wasn't a lemon law or anything, but I bought back my old Thunderbird when I bent the bumper while destroying an Olds Calais. It was totaled, I bought it back and I kept the original title, nothing was changed whatsoever.
Probably not very relevant to this discussion, but hey......

 

Vehicle Identification Numbers are the fingerprints of a vehicle. It is illegal to change a VIN, regardless of manufacturer or world-wide location.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...article625547/

Just because it's illegal doesn't stop some people from doing it, particularly since it can turn a Plain Jane into a Beauty Queen. For example, 1965 and 1966 Ford Mustang fastbacks were produced in the tens of thousands, but Shelby Mustangs are rare and valuable. A Shelby clone with the "right" VIN can fool a naive, unsuspecting buyer.

Penalties for VIN fraud vary by jurisdiction.

 

Off topic - I love reading car related law issues in the US, they seem so exotic (in a sort of a positive way, don’t take me wrong) to a European. If I have a leaking AC and dealer would not be able to solve it would end up with a discount for a new car (maybe a replacement, but I can’t really believe). But for sure it would mean months without a car (potentially with a fleet car from a dealer). In US lawyers take care of it and car is “destroyed”

 

Zippy, can the seller provide a Carfax report that might give some insight into the buy-back? If there was a buy-back, I would think the type of title would be changed from "normal" to something like "salvage" or similar, and that would definitely show up on the report. If the seller won't provide that, you can order one from Carfax yourself, for around $40 I believe. You could also call Jaguar NA but I think Carfax would be faster.

 

In the US a lot of stuff is state by state, so you can have 50 different ways its handled too. In my state, Michigan, we have Clean, Rebuilt, Salvage, Scrap and then brands for things like Flood/Municipal Use/Taxi. And when you move to another state, some titles coming in to Michigan LOSE certain brands and sometimes leaving Michigan to another state LOSE certain brands in the new state. Basically, sites like carfax help us navigate this a bit; and its one of the areas that record search and aggregate sites like it (IE Carfax, AutoCheck and more) are usually pretty accurate.

Here if you have an insurance claim to your vehicle and it is deemed a total loss, your car is usually branded a salvage title. You then have to rebuild the car and get it inspected to where it will gain a Rebuilt title and be authorized for road use. Say it was a flood, it will be salvage => fix it => rebuilt with a flood brand.

I have owned 2 rebuilt titled vehicles. One I paid $800 for and one I paid $1200 for. Both ended up being excellent vehicles, and both were collision related losses early in life. I bought one, a 1996 Saturn SL1 with 86k miles in 2004, and it was salvaged in 1998 with 18k miles. So it had been repaired for a while in terms of time and mileage. As a result, post inspecting it, I bought it for $800; well below the market value at the time (it also needed a rebuild due to bad rings). Generally market value for salvage can be 60% of the price of a clean titled vehicle. Some insurers will not let you insure it for full coverage, aka collision and comprehensive. Another was a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP that needed a full suspension rebuild, all 4 corners of brakes, tires and new headlights but had 90k miles and paint and interior were immaculate. Again, early in life total loss, many miles and years on the repairs. Ended up putting about $800 into it with the $1200 and had a car that with a clean title was worth $4k; sold it 3 years later for $500 more than I had in it.

I would not recommend buying a car with a compromised title unless you get a significant discount, and time and mileage of note has occurred since the title brand event. I also generally only look at them in the cheap beater car category of use, where the brand matters a lot less to a guy looking for a $1-2k piece of transportation when you resell. For more expensive cars, you can get a salvage car but keep in mind that it limits who will buy it from you and how much you will get in resale. Sometimes its a great way to experience a supercar cheap, but its a lot of risk, and every maintenance and repair dollar costs the same as a clean title car but the return is even worse than on the clean title car.

 

With caution a branded title car can be a bargain. Bought an '05 Honda ages ago for my daughter for use while she was away at college. Title was branded due to collision damage. Car ran like a watch and drove well; was priced about 40% below market. She ran the wheels off that car for several years.

Some lemon-law cars can be a bargain as well. In some cases the fault wasn't really significant but it simply took too many attempts to get it repaired

Cheers
DD

 

It was a rhetorical question UNLESS Jaguar can change the VINs on their own cars. My point was clear, to the OP if it was a manufacturer buyback, the VIN should be able to reveal the history and status of the car.