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Finally getting the little details wrapped up on the LS Chevy swap

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Old 03-06-2018, 11:36 PM
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Default Finally getting the little details wrapped up on the LS Chevy swap

We are happy to report that the LS-1 Chevy Swap is complete and this car is absolutely a joy to drive. When we bought the car at auction, the 4.0 was smoked by an elderly owners lack of concern over coolant levels, or lack thereof. The replacement of the Jaguar engine with another Jaguar engine was cost prohibitive, so we turned to the 2002 Camaro engine and transmission. We used the Jaguar Specialties kit and it worked perfectly. Every piece of this kit was spot on.

Here’s a few photos of the install. Notice that the hood insulation is still intact and the unmodified hood shuts as it should.













 
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:27 AM
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The installation looks very clean. Job well done! What kind of power are you pulling? Just stock 325 bhp? How does it drive, considering the chassis and suspension was never made for that? Meaning sports driving, which is probably how you drive it now that you have a manual, I would think? Did you install a LSD too?

Having said all that, and I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, so please don't take this as an attack or offense, it just looks so wrong in there. It's now basically a sort of replica. Not a real Jaguar without its heart, unfortunately. A LS swap makes a lot of sense for many cars. They are bullet proof simple engines which make a lot of power and for cheap. But I think the cars which are good candidates for LS swaps are mainly soulless cars or cars which land themselves well to hot-roding. Neither of which a Jaguar is IMO. Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, MX5s and most JDMs, and small manufacturers who use other manufacturer's engines anyway, are good candidates for swaps. But cars like Jaguars, Astons, Alfas, Maseratis, Ferraris, Porsches etc should have their own engine.

If it was my car, I would be fine with another Jaguar engine swap, like a newer V8 from a X150 or even F-type or even a Jaguar straight 6, for whatever reason. It would at least still be a Jaguar. But a Chevy is just so wrong. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a machine with a great pedigree and racing tradition such as a Jaguar if the machine inside is not a Jaguar. At that point I would just buy a Corvette or Camaro. Because it looks like a Jaguar but it's not. Reminds me of Fiero replicas somehow.

Now I don't mean to give you a hard time, even though I know this will come across as a hard put down. Especially that I know well done swaps are not a walk on the park and yours looks very clean and well done. You deserve lots of props for the job. I also understand that the original engine was toasted and you thought another Jaguar engine was not worth it. But to me this was the only way. Otherwise I would just not buy the car and leave it to somebody who could do it properly. Even if it was given to me, and I couldn't afford to put the original engine in there, I would either give it or sell it to somebody who could bring it back to its original glory or just leave it sitting till I could do it myself. But like I said, IF it was me. Although I can't think an used XK8 engine really costs that much more money than a LS1 plus swap kit to be honest, if at all.

Sorry, this is just my personal opinion. It's your car, I know it. It's your money and I don't presume to tell you what to do with it. I'm just saying what I would do and expressing the opinion that I think having a Chevy engine totally defeats the purpose of buying a Jaguar. But it's a free world and we all have different opinions. At least the X100 is not any rare, yet.

I'm not a purist or anything by the way. It's just that some things you don't mess with in a car of that lineage. The engine is one of them.

But it's a free world and at least the job looks to be outstanding.
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:47 AM
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Would I do this to my current XK8, noooo

Would I buy another one with a trashed engine, drop an LS1, 5 speed, bit of a blower on top for 600-700 HP. My inner delinquent would in a heart beat.

Nice to see how clean and tidy it turned out, fine job Jagolet
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:00 AM
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I have the impression this type of thing must be more acceptable in North America than it is here in Europe. The LS1 being an American engine and all. Most people I know here would consider it sacrilege.

I wonder how much a swap like this costs?

I also wonder how it affects resale value? It seems to be one of those things where you will never make the money back and it might actually devalue the car. At least here in Europe I think it might devalue the car.
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:26 AM
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Can't beat American ENGINEuity!!!@! It's like what Carroll Shelby did to the AC Ace.
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:36 AM
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Jagolet, Thanks for the info/pics and congrats on the LSx swap! I have a '97 XK8 coupe with a bad engine and have a LS1/4L60E trans ready to go in (Jaguar Specialties kit as well). Mechanically I have no issue with the swap, but the electrical side of things has me concerned.

How difficult was it to marry the Jag harness and the LSx harness? Did you strip out any unnecessary wires in the process?
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:33 AM
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Well I am impressed. Looks "factory" almost. The air intake is the only thing that looks out of place. Needs a cheap black plastic one to really blend in.

I would definitely drive it. Euro-purists can bite me.

Don't neglect to fix those upper shock mounts before you start thrashing about the roadways!
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:59 AM
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That is NICE! Great job! Hopefully I never need it done, but if so I would do it in a heartbeat!!
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rothwell
I would definitely drive it. Euro-purists can bite me.
Nothing to do with Europe. Don't make this about nationalism or geographic location. I wouldn't buy a Corvette or Viper to drop a Toyota straight 6 in it either.

If what I want is a Supra, well, I buy a bloody Supra!
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:15 AM
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Default Thanks for the compliments and the criticism, seriously.

Guys,
I am not offended by any of the comments. I understand how it seems odd to some people and I absolutely get the idea that the car has been *******ized. I get that same feeling in my gut every time I see a 34 Ford with a blown big block. BUT, just like the blown 34, the car is Waaaaayyyyy better now than when it was new.

My wife bought this car at a wrecker impound auction. We gave $1850 dollars for it. The only other bidder was a salvage yard owner who specialized in imports. If we hadn't bought the car, it was doomed to the fate of being ripped asunder. We saved the car from that horrible end.

Thst same salvage yard owner owner tried to sell us a used engine for the car. He wanted $3500 for a used 30,000 mile 4.0 engine with the same inherent design flaws as our broken one. Add in the cost of the necessary service work to be done on the used engine before install and you're now tickling the $5000 dollar mark.

I contacted the nearest Jaguar dealer and inquired about a reman unit. I think I remember the number was about $6500 exchange. They wanted another $2500-$3000 to do the install, plus parts.

Both of those options were cost prohibitive. Either of them would have placed the car well into the deficit in value.

My original plan was to abandon the Jaguar power train in favor of a Ford Coyote 5.0. Unfortunately the Coyote is 4 inches wider than the Jaguar strut towers. Obviously that was more than I wanted to take on right now so we turned to the LS.

I've got $750 dollars invested in the engine and transmission plus about $800 in a modified oil pan and all new front accessories including water pump, p/s pump, a/c compressor etc...

The Jaguar Specialties kit fit like a glove in every regard. Andrew was a wealth of information and answered every phone call and every question. The CAN interface was included in the kit price of $2,000. It was money VERY well spent.

I'd love to take credit for the installation but I can't. My regular job obligations and a new business startup took up way to much of my time and simply wouldn't allow me to tackle this job. I hired a local shop, NWA Streetworks to do the work and they did an outstanding job. They specialize in LS and Coyote swaps and tunes. Their work is impeccable. That cost us $3,500 dollars.

Throw in another $1,000 for various and sundry items like exhaust, drive shaft, tires and so forth and we are in the car to the tune of about $10,000 including the purchase price of the vehicle.

What we wound up with is a very nice driver that runs like a striped *** ape, is ridiculously dependable, looks like a million bucks and maintains all of the style of a Jaguar.

Will I do another LS install into a Jaguar ? NO ! The next one, and there WILL BE a next one, will be Coyote powered. I'm recently retired from my day job in the fire service and our business venture is up and running. I have acquired a plasma cutter and I am on the prowl for an XK Coupe to use as a donor. I will remove the strut towers and replace them with a much smaller coil over shock configuration. That will make room for the width of the Coyote.

The next car will lose lose most of its creature comforts. I'm going to build a car that is suitable for the track or the street. No a/c or cushy seats, no stereo and no carpet. The next car will be a toggle switch equipped, purpose built machine. Loud, FAST and violent is my goal.

To answer a few questions... We did strip out much of the Camaro wiring. The GM ECM mated up well with the CAN interface provided by Jaguar Specialties.

We used a modified GTO oil pan so the sump would clear the crossmember.

The aluminum 5.7 liter LS-1 and 4L60E weighs just 30 pounds more than the Jaguar engine and transmission.

The old engine and and trans brought $300 dollars to another Jaguar owner.

In closing please let me point out that an engine replacement in this car now would be very inexpensive. All of the expensive stuff has been done and swapping another LS engine in would literally be as simple as plug and play.

Again, I take no offense to anything said by anyone. I get it. I really do. But we must consider that without a Chevy heart, this old car was going to die. I'm happy with our little *******. 😀
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:54 AM
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. It is, after all, your car to do whatever you want with it....

Well done, and very impressive work....
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:14 AM
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Looks very impressive. A great job to save a "dead cat" Well done
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jagolet
Guys,
I am not offended by any of the comments. I understand how it seems odd to some people and I absolutely get the idea that the car has been *******ized. I get that same feeling in my gut every time I see a 34 Ford with a blown big block. BUT, just like the blown 34, the car is Waaaaayyyyy better now than when it was new.

My wife bought this car at a wrecker impound auction. We gave $1850 dollars for it. The only other bidder was a salvage yard owner who specialized in imports. If we hadn't bought the car, it was doomed to the fate of being ripped asunder. We saved the car from that horrible end.

Thst same salvage yard owner owner tried to sell us a used engine for the car. He wanted $3500 for a used 30,000 mile 4.0 engine with the same inherent design flaws as our broken one. Add in the cost of the necessary service work to be done on the used engine before install and you're now tickling the $5000 dollar mark.

I contacted the nearest Jaguar dealer and inquired about a reman unit. I think I remember the number was about $6500 exchange. They wanted another $2500-$3000 to do the install, plus parts.

Both of those options were cost prohibitive. Either of them would have placed the car well into the deficit in value.

My original plan was to abandon the Jaguar power train in favor of a Ford Coyote 5.0. Unfortunately the Coyote is 4 inches wider than the Jaguar strut towers. Obviously that was more than I wanted to take on right now so we turned to the LS.

I've got $750 dollars invested in the engine and transmission plus about $800 in a modified oil pan and all new front accessories including water pump, p/s pump, a/c compressor etc...

The Jaguar Specialties kit fit like a glove in every regard. Andrew was a wealth of information and answered every phone call and every question. The CAN interface was included in the kit price of $2,000. It was money VERY well spent.

I'd love to take credit for the installation but I can't. My regular job obligations and a new business startup took up way to much of my time and simply wouldn't allow me to tackle this job. I hired a local shop, NWA Streetworks to do the work and they did an outstanding job. They specialize in LS and Coyote swaps and tunes. Their work is impeccable. That cost us $3,500 dollars.

Throw in another $1,000 for various and sundry items like exhaust, drive shaft, tires and so forth and we are in the car to the tune of about $10,000 including the purchase price of the vehicle.

What we wound up with is a very nice driver that runs like a striped *** ape, is ridiculously dependable, looks like a million bucks and maintains all of the style of a Jaguar.

Will I do another LS install into a Jaguar ? NO ! The next one, and there WILL BE a next one, will be Coyote powered. I'm recently retired from my day job in the fire service and our business venture is up and running. I have acquired a plasma cutter and I am on the prowl for an XK Coupe to use as a donor. I will remove the strut towers and replace them with a much smaller coil over shock configuration. That will make room for the width of the Coyote.

The next car will lose lose most of its creature comforts. I'm going to build a car that is suitable for the track or the street. No a/c or cushy seats, no stereo and no carpet. The next car will be a toggle switch equipped, purpose built machine. Loud, FAST and violent is my goal.

To answer a few questions... We did strip out much of the Camaro wiring. The GM ECM mated up well with the CAN interface provided by Jaguar Specialties.

We used a modified GTO oil pan so the sump would clear the crossmember.

The aluminum 5.7 liter LS-1 and 4L60E weighs just 30 pounds more than the Jaguar engine and transmission.

The old engine and and trans brought $300 dollars to another Jaguar owner.

In closing please let me point out that an engine replacement in this car now would be very inexpensive. All of the expensive stuff has been done and swapping another LS engine in would literally be as simple as plug and play.

Again, I take no offense to anything said by anyone. I get it. I really do. But we must consider that without a Chevy heart, this old car was going to die. I'm happy with our little *******. 😀
First of all, compliments for taking criticism like an adult! Like I said the job looks really clean nonetheless.

Now that we have moved passed that, you bring up some interesting points.

Dirty cheap is a LS1 there. I guess it makes sense as they are probably a dime a dozen there. Here you are looking at 3,000 to 5,000 for an used one.

But I'm very surprised that the Jaguar engine would be so expensive there. I know these cars are dirty cheap there. But the engine isn't?

And I could only dream of finding a X100 here for the price of 1,850, even without engine. Heck, even without engine and transmission. If I would find one for that price without engine and transmission but with the rest in great condition, I would buy it in the blink of an eye. Then drop a Jaguar V8 in it, maybe even one of the bigger and newer ones and be a happy camper.

But I must say I can't make much sense of your financial calculations. You said putting the Jaguar engine would be prohibitively expensive. According with the prices you gave, it would be basically the same price as you spent for the LS1. Actually a few hundred less. So I can't help but think your stronger motivation was not the price of the engine and install.

Another point I don't understand is when you say "for a used 30,000 mile 4.0 engine with the same inherent design flaws as our broken one." As far as I could gather, the Jaguar V8 is bullet proof. With a poster even mentioning he found it more reliable than the LS1 he had. The problems lie on some of the accessories such as water pump and with the plastic timing chain tensioners, etc or so it looks. All of which can be sorted it seems. I guess this is what you meant would take the cost of the engine to $5000. But then you would have a bullet proof engine and the original engine the car is supposed to have, and for about the same money. A bit lighter than the LS1 too it seems. Looks to me like a winning situation. So again your economic reasoning is not making sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something.

Moving on to another thing you said:

Originally Posted by Jagolet
Will I do another LS install into a Jaguar ? NO ! The next one, and there WILL BE a next one, will be Coyote powered. I'm recently retired from my day job in the fire service and our business venture is up and running. I have acquired a plasma cutter and I am on the prowl for an XK Coupe to use as a donor. I will remove the strut towers and replace them with a much smaller coil over shock configuration. That will make room for the width of the Coyote.

The next car will lose lose most of its creature comforts. I'm going to build a car that is suitable for the track or the street. No a/c or cushy seats, no stereo and no carpet. The next car will be a toggle switch equipped, purpose built machine. Loud, FAST and violent is my goal.
This is interesting. How much weight can be shaved from the car without going full racing car, with you know, fully stripping the interior, dash and all seats etc. Meaning with it still being a registered road vehicle? I guess you could dish things like electric seats, mirrors, windows etc. But how much weight do you reckon you could truly save and by doing what? This is an interesting topic.
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:44 PM
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Nice job, Jagolet.
Will it please the purists? Probably not, but I'd much rather see a pretty cat on the road than sat festering in a scrapyard with a hole where its heart should be. Besides, who will know when the hood's down?

It's all about having fun at the end of the day so enjoy your creativity
 

Last edited by michaelh; 03-07-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:30 PM
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I can shed some light on north american prices. Used chev or ford V8 engines are quite common and relatively cheap. Used Jag engines are VERY rare this side of the pond. Older Jags are fairly cheap as well because they depreciate A LOT over here and frankly, a lot of folks are "afraid" of them. I sold a 2003 MX5 Miata for almost $11,000 cdn. It was on the market for 2 days. I then bought my 2004 XK8 for $13,000 cdn and the guy had been trying to sell it for months. So I went from a 2003 4cyl little sports car to a 2004 Jag XK8 for under three grand ....that's the north american market

I would say that a Jag with a blown engine is basically worthless over here. I saw an add for a used Jag transmission for $4500 cdn !! . You can buy a really good american VB engine and transmission for less than 1/2 that. So it makes sense ,what Jagolet did. If my engine died , I'd probably do the same thing.
 

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Old 03-07-2018, 06:39 PM
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Default Financials and FUNancials

The LS swap did indeed cost about what a replacement Jaguar V-8 would have cost. But, the expensive part is done forever and this little kitty will likely stay Chevy powered from here on. Why ? Because a rebuild on this engine can be completed for about $1,500 IF it's ever needed. A junk yard LS can be had for less than a grand. With these facts in mind I think it only makes sense to use Chevy power.

The Jaguar 4.0 is plagued with recurring and expensive failures. They are indeed cheap here, mostly because so many of them have suffered engine failures. In fact, I can take you to a 2001 XKR roadster in Erie Kansas that is currently for sale for a paltry $2,000. Why so cheap ? The engine is blown up.

One other consideration is parts availability. We drive our cars and enjoy them. If I find myself in some small town with a mechanical failure like a water pump etc, odds are the local parts store will have whatever I need to make the repairs. Jaguar parts are much less plentiful and much more expensive. Parts availability also played a big role in my decision.

Performance is also a factor. There is simply no way on earth that a 4.0 will make the power of this 5.7, all things being equal. The bottom end of these motors can easily withstand 700 horsepower in stock trim. That means that we can add a turbo or some other power adder without fear of scattering parts.

With regard to the Coyote powered Coupe, I think we can take about 800 pounds off of the car by gutting the unnecessary comforts. When you consider the car weighs about 3,800 pounds in stock form, that's a huge diet. A 600 horse Coyote in a 3,000 pound Jaguar will make for a very quick kitty indeed.

Again, I understand folks heartburn with the swap. I also know that if you ever drive one of these halfbreeds, you'll go home and yank the 4.0 out of yours. 😀

 
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:03 PM
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I'm going to order my kit very soon. I've had a 400 RWHP LS1/T56 Camaro sitting in my driveway for 3 years waiting for my '97 coupe to have issues and it has finally started having issues.

For the haters worried about "resale value", I can't imagine an LS1/T56 swap decreasing the value of an XK8 Coupe. That doesn't even seem possible.
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jagolet



Jagolet, be sure to change out those upper shock mounts. Those look dead.
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:04 PM
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I loved johns427 post. Heritage angle - British car & American engine = AC cobra and Carol Shelby.

Though Ttytt my favorite story of American and Britian putting their heads together was when they decided, hey let's try putting a Rolls Royce supercharged Merlin engine in an American plane, the P51 Mustang. It actually changed the history of the world.

Anyway, my compliments on a fine job. Don't think you've had a chance to comment on the torque / horsepower, we'd love to hear about any performance improvements from the driver's perspective.

John
 
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Old 03-08-2018, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jagolet
The LS swap did indeed cost about what a replacement Jaguar V-8 would have cost. But, the expensive part is done forever and this little kitty will likely stay Chevy powered from here on. Why ? Because a rebuild on this engine can be completed for about $1,500 IF it's ever needed. A junk yard LS can be had for less than a grand. With these facts in mind I think it only makes sense to use Chevy power.

The Jaguar 4.0 is plagued with recurring and expensive failures. They are indeed cheap here, mostly because so many of them have suffered engine failures. In fact, I can take you to a 2001 XKR roadster in Erie Kansas that is currently for sale for a paltry $2,000. Why so cheap ? The engine is blown up.

One other consideration is parts availability. We drive our cars and enjoy them. If I find myself in some small town with a mechanical failure like a water pump etc, odds are the local parts store will have whatever I need to make the repairs. Jaguar parts are much less plentiful and much more expensive. Parts availability also played a big role in my decision.

Performance is also a factor. There is simply no way on earth that a 4.0 will make the power of this 5.7, all things being equal. The bottom end of these motors can easily withstand 700 horsepower in stock trim. That means that we can add a turbo or some other power adder without fear of scattering parts.

With regard to the Coyote powered Coupe, I think we can take about 800 pounds off of the car by gutting the unnecessary comforts. When you consider the car weighs about 3,800 pounds in stock form, that's a huge diet. A 600 horse Coyote in a 3,000 pound Jaguar will make for a very quick kitty indeed.

Again, I understand folks heartburn with the swap. I also know that if you ever drive one of these halfbreeds, you'll go home and yank the 4.0 out of yours. 😀

Ok. Now I see the motivation for your swap.

I would say it's more about convenience than financial. But then again they can be one and the same in this case.

But I'm still surprised the engines and parts for it are that rare. The Thunderbird and the Lincoln LS used the same engine. Can't you use one of the "Ford" engines to swap in our X100, as well as source parts from them to keep your Jaguar engine running?

On the power front you are of course absolutely right. There is no replacement for displacement, as they say. But power for some reason doesn't seem to be of much concern to most Jaguar owners. At least this is the impression I get. I do like a lot of power myself. But not enough to ditch the Jaguar engine for a non Jaguar engine, in a Jaguar. But that's a legit and understandable reason.

Could you elaborate where the 800 pounds weight savings would come from? If keeping some minimal creature comforts such as at least AC, can you expect any close to that? Or are you talking totally gutting the interior like in a racing car, where you leave basically a plastic seat and the steering wheel, but carpet, lining, sound isolation, gauges, dash and everything else goes?

Back to the reliability of the 4.0, what I have read and been told has led me to believe the engines can be bullet proof, if you replace the weak links such as tensioners, water pump, cooling hoses etc with the newer and better versions. You don't find this to be the case? I was sure hoping so as my hopes of finding a suitable 4.2 car get slimmers by the day here.

And a X100 with a blown engine for $2,000? Send it over please!

Seriously, if I could find a late coupe in great condition but a blown engine for that price I might be inclined to import it to Europe. Shouldn't be anything special to source a Jaguar V8 here for it.
 


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