Interesting thread as to how people think of their Jags. I agree with Rivguy's idea, "The bottom line is that we each enjoy our cars and our experiences with them in our own individual ways". I bought my '97 XK8 a few months ago for $8000. Canadian, about $6000. U.S. with the idea that I'd probably have to put that much into it to get her up to top shape. I did a lot of
research on the car before I bought it so I knew what problems to look for, timing chains, tranny, brittle hoses and plastic etc. I've never bought a car with the resale value in mind. I bought this one because of how it looks and it had the service records from day one with the major problems had already been resolved by the Jaguar dealer in Vancouver. Ya it's a 22 year old car with wrinkles in the leather seats and other minor problems a 22 year old car has but nothing that can't be fixed or replaced, thanks to the help of the good folks on the forum that are willing to share their knowledge. As far as power goes, the car is fast enough for me. I had it up to 180 kph for a good stretch on the 900km drive back home and she ran flawlessly. I see Mustangs, Corvettes, BMWs etc all over town but I've only seen 5 or 6 Jags and none like mine. I'll maintain it and do the repairs as needed and drive it when I can, May to October, and love every minute of it.

 

I sort of fell into my car as well. The car that made me love cars was the first-gen Viper. Then I got into Jeeps and SUVs, and then into Audis. Love a good rally/off-road pedigree.

My car previously belonged to my uncle. When he passed away, he left the car to me. Under any other circumstance, I might have traded it or sold it. I'm not sure.

And yet, I've fallen in love with it. But I don't look at it with rose-colored glasses. The wood trim is quite nice, but the more I dig into the car, the more I learn about how cars are made. Seats aren't fully leather, the window switches are nearly identical to a Ford Mondeo, the injectors literally have a Ford logo on them. Stuff like this isn't unique to Jaguar--everyone does it. But I buy I lot less into the Jaguar pedigree and prestige than most owners do, I think.

But, if you buy a car because you want to feel fancy or want the prestige that comes along with a brand name, I think that'll fade pretty quickly. And there are much faster and better handling cars.

I think I've fallen in love with the car because it's made me work for it. I've spent countless hours mending it and making it whole. And when you get to know something that intimately, you have no choice but to either love it or hate it. And, I think, I've gotten back what I've put in in terms of experience and maturity--learning how to take care of a thing. You can learn a lot about yourself when you're learning how to fix a car.

When I drive it, it feels special. And people love to ride in it. Not because it's fancy, not because it's fast, but because it has character. Because it's silly and irrational.

 

To Clyde in Texas, Nobody made this woman buy the car, she wanted a jag, had owned jags, again, it's a cheap car to her and she will no doubt drive it into the ground. i heard from her already, she lent the car to a friend who was arrested and the key taken, so now she has to hire a locksmith to open the trunk where we told her the extra stuff, all the other keys and fobs, a list of what i had done and when, some receipts from me and the former owner, etc.

so the car is maybe not loved as much as it was in my charge. no matter. i have only sold two cars in my experience of 27 that actually went for more than i paid. that does not include the hours of love and attention, fixing, burned finger, scraped other body parts, etc...and money i put into it. i just had to let it go. and it went for more than i paid for it.

about the timing chain tensioners....well it's a well known defect here and it never, never worried me. only about 1/2 of the folks who called on the add knew about it. i had no idea when i bought it.
and the valley hoses, like all the other hoses, well 95% of them, in excellent condition as the car was ALWAYS garaged. no i have no worries about what happens to the car.

If I was to spend cash on the car, it would be for an oil change, i gave the new owners parts i had, including a new oil filter. that's all it needed imho.


there are many older cars with known defects that are sold every day. its an old car i think buyers know that , at least this buyer knew she wanted another Jag and she got one.

 

I think I can speak, as someone who had seen the craigslist ad before you posted about it on the forums, that the reason you are getting some animosity here on the forum is due to how you present yourself.

Your car sounds like it is in average condition for a car of this age.

It needed tensioner work done. It had scratches and dings scattered across the body panels. It sounds like it hasn't had any of the wear components replaced in the suspension, or cooling system.
You were selling an average car, in average condition. In a color that is mostly undesirable to the average buyer.


Your ad advertised a car that needed nothing. Your car needed dents and paint repair to be considered in good condition.
It also potentially had a long list of maintenance items that you ignored that just haven't come to a head yet.


You were asking a price that is half your original asking price. Your half off asking price would be in the realm of what an excellent condition car of your model year would be worth if it had a mountain of paperwork documenting all of the maintenance tasks had been completed.

Your full asking price would have been incredibly insulting to anyone that would be a prospective buyer, i think your half off asking price is insulting as well, albeit closer to the actual value of the car.


If the woman was happy buying an overpriced car that wasn't exactly as advertised, then that is on her. But do you really feel like you described the car for sale in the most moral way possible? From an outside point of view, it seemed like you advertised the car in the way that would net you the most money possible, regardless as to whether that was the actual condition of the car.

 

never knew that selling a used car was a tricky moral issue, nobody ever told me anything except do your homework and buyer beware. i got whatever the market would allow and i am happy it is gone, the new person is happy they have it, just like when i bought it. I started high on purpose, per the marketplace this was an exceptional car except for the body work, which i never had an issue with and was clearly visible.

mad hatter, you are entitled to your opinion, even through it is without all the facts of the matter....all that you saw was a craigs list add, the color is unique and the new owner and the previous owner loved it. i sort of liked it too,although it would not be my first choice of colors either. you did not drive it or look it over, underneath you would be able to eat off the suspension as it was not driven in the rain and had NO rust of any type except for the under side of the chrome wheels. the engine purred at idle, all the electronics worked except for the trunk lights. all the features worked perfectly. the sound system was perfect. the ride was like new, no bounce, smooth. it passed smog like a pro to sell it. the trans and rear end and power steering was excellent.
it would kick down and go and sounded great. even the power antenna and interior rear view mirror worked.

i will bet that many hear do not have a car that ran so well and where everything worked. i loved it and owned it with pride and fixed many things till i got it in great shape, enjoyed and and it was time to sell. the buyer felt like they got a good deal , after owning several jags herself. she knew what she had . it took that unique buyer to appreciate it and i thought she got a decent price. new tires and brakes included.

my experience is that there are good cars and not good cars, cars that breakdown or come with many defects and cars that just run forever with little more than regular maintenance.
my 16 year old S2000 is a good car, had it since new, done my own maintenance, i have not spent more than $1,000 dollars on things wearing out other than brakes and tires, fluids and filters. i consider it a great car, if i sold it i would do the same thing, tell the new owners whatever i had done and ask what i wanted for it and negotiated the deal.
my jag was not fraught with issues, i think any car you can drive 300 miles with no issues is a good car, this was that car. it was plagued with years of neglect and lack of maintenance and as we all know from experience had some latent defects from the factory, and it was TWENTY years old.

 

Selling anything can be a tricky moral issue. In fact, misleading a buyer would be considered fraud. That is a very clearly defined legal and moral issue.

That is the problem, isn't it. That you didn't accurately describe the car to your prospective buyers. Me being one of them.

I like the color as well, that is the only reason i was interested in buying your car in the first place. While that may increase my personal budget for wanting to purchase your car, that does not raise the market value of your car, it decreases it.

As an average car that is roadworthy should. Your insurance rate, and base market value of the car, assumes that absolutely everything works in the car.


The car is definitely not an exceptional car. This was a below average car in the marketplace that you were selling it in. I say this because I was an active buyer in the marketplace during the time you were selling this car. The body and paint is often the most valuable part of a used car, as it is the most difficult and expensive to put right. Not mentioning the body and paint defects in the ad of the car would make me a very pissed off buyer if I had called you and drove the 10 hours to San Francisco to come look at the car, only to find out that you refused to disclose this information, out of laziness, or malice.


Then please advertise the car as such. Ultimately, the problem is that you have no moral qualms with saying that the car is in "excellent" condition. In contrast, when you were a buyer of said car from your relative it had "dents in all sides, with bumper scratches".
Over the course of the thread you have claimed to have repaired most of the wear components, which is wonderful, but I think the car things left to do should be boldly mentioned alongside the statement that the car is OTHERWISE in excellent condition.

I disagree, I think there are good owners and bad owners. It seems you operate on the premise that a good car is one that you get when it doesn't break down when you ignore its maintenance. I definitely do not agree that a good car is based on the ability to drive 300 miles with no issues. If you do proper maintenance on a car then you should rarely be surprised by something breaking unexpectedly.

Ultimately I don't think we are far off on ideals here. I was annoyed that you misrepresented your car as being in a different condition than i would believe it to be in. But you truly do believe that it is in excellent condition. I think you can understand my, and possibly a few others frustration, that you would be bragging that someone bought the car sight unseen without even asking about the things that might be wrong about it. It comes off like you knowingly and happily got away with selling the car misrepresented.

 

Hirev….

I just hope that this doesn't come back and "Bite you in the Butt"!

I'm Signing off! Good Bye!

Billy Clyde

 

The closest thing Mercedes had when the X100 was in production was the R129 SL. The leather was good but the wood trim definitely was not of higher quality nor appearance. I would say the same of cars such as the W124, W126, and W140 versus the XJ40 and X300. Going further in time the X308 definitely had a nicer interior than the W220 S-Class. Did Mercedes, BMW, Audi, or Lexus ever offer inlays in wood trim or lambs wool rugs? Nope. Like I said, only other marques that did were Rolls-Royce and Bentley.

Original concours condition 4.0 XK8's with very low mileage are already fetching in the low teens.

 

I'm kind of surprised that this discussion has gone on so long. Hang around enough car forums long enough and you'll be privy to every dirty little secret about the failings of many cars. Hanging out on this forum I've become acquainted with the known weaknesses of many later model Jags. I am interested in XK8s but I would not buy one earlier than a 2003 to avoid any chain tensioner issues. Low mileage wouldn't affect my decision, because I've learned that the tensioners will eventually fail, unfortunately without warning. I had a line on a 2000 XJ8 that had a rebuilt engine, transmission and many cooling lines replaced. The seller claimed to have documentation for all the work. The rest of the car was in pretty good condition but not show level. He was asking for more than what comparable 00's would go for, but I thought it was worth it since repairs and upgrades were documented. I was all excited and ready to buy but unfortunately for some reason the seller never contacted me back over several weeks.

My son recently bought an older Boxster. I was aware that the earliest models had a recall to replace the entire motor under warranty, due to problems with the crankcase castings. Then there is that problem with the transfer shaft in the motor. It is a severe defect that will destroy an engine. I've done a lot of reading and watched several videos that were made by the PCA. I would not buy a Porsche from this era without doing my due diligence. I hope that my Son did his!

Old cars are old cars. What does a reputable seller owe to the buyer? Subjective claims about the condition, desirability, and future collector value can be dismissed out of hand. There are honest differences about how people would describe the condition of their vehicle. It's up to the buyer to inspect the possible purchase. If the seller has a documented service history, that adds a lot of value to a car. I bought an old Explorer with over 240,000 miles on the clock because it ran and presented well, and had a thick file of service records. There were receipts for a front suspension arm replacement, rear brake rebuild, a/c compressor replacement, and even a transmission rebuild, along with regular oil changes. I paid more than most old Explorers were going for, but it was an informed decision.

I've bought a lot of cars off the street, off of Craig's List, and sold many as well. I've never misrepresented any of them, but I've never offered any guarantees either! What you see is what you get. If I was going to buy an older XK8 with an unknown and undocumented condition of the cam chain tensioners, than that would have an effect on the price I would offer and ultimately pay. These cars have passed through several owners by now, It the seller tells me that he thinks that he's the third owner and has owned the car for several years, and that it's been good to him, then I'll take him at his word. Chances are that he doesn't know the exact history of his car either. It would be weird if the seller said that he " hasn't had any trouble with the car but the engine could grenade at any moment" well, that would dampen my enthusiasm! Though of course, that would be the truth.

 

You seem hard set in a different time where people don't treat each other kindly.

The lady didn't do her due dilligence when buying your car, so i guess just **** her right?

I am not going to be responding anymore to this thread. Not worth my time.

 

From my experience, you would make a very good used car salesman.
You knew that the tensioners are a major issue and WILL FAIL, more likely than not very early into the new owners 'ownership'. I think at the least she should have been informed of this but obviously your scruples aren't mine.
Good luck with your life.
wj