Wondering if anyone has tried to find or has,,, or has considered a press fit bushing to go into the upper control arms on our cars? Seems like it might work, if it worked...

Something like this....besides an OD match what else would need to be considered? Width of course and center bolt hole size,,,

 

[QUOTE=.besides an OD match what else would need to be considered? Width of course and center bolt hole size,,,
[/QUOTE]

One thing to consider is the Rubber compliance.
When I changed my upper bushes to Poly, the ride quality was stiffened and it was especially noticeable on corners. Of course the pivot function of the Bush is not affected, but the vibration absorbance is.
When you look at the geometry, the OEM rubber provides movement of the wheel upper ball joint (see arrows in pic of front left upper wishbone). Be aware that any stiffening or reduction of this movement will directly affect ride quality.

 

+1
Remember that the UCA bushing design is really a bearing:- the rubber components are free to rotate around the centre spacer and hence are not under any torsional stress.

Using Metalastik (or whatever it is in the 21st century) will definitely stiffen the suspension, and also add stress that the designers won't have anticipated to the arm itself.

It's a shame the OEM doesn't use better materials and better waterproofing

Just my

 

Hey PK... Thanks.

This all was just something bouncing around in my head. My 2002 is making noise again and I'm frustrated by the whole set up.

In thinking about it I guess the thing I don't know enough about is the way the OE set up moves. Does the pin stay mostly still, and the rubber, and the arm rotate over the rubber? I would think with what I'm suggesting the bushing would end up pinned against the bolt and the subframe side, the press fit bush wouldn't rotate in the sleeve of the arm and the whole thing would want to be fixed. Similar to the lowers... Would everything be mostly "fixed" and rotate over the pin, if you know what I mean...?

And, as you mentioned - well everything you mentioned - would need to be considered as well.

I have one spare arm, maybe I'll see if I can find the bushing that would fit (if that's possible) then go for the second if things seem to be making sense.

I have never liked the upper bush set up in these cars!

 

you can try the xj40/x308 upper bushing

 

I'll look them up and see what I can.
Would you be willing to say a little more about this idea?

 

UCA bushing design? I'll be looking that up as well.

So, yes, right... With the outer and inner flat washers and spacers,,, then that Teflon-ish material between the outer washer/spacer and the way all of that is pinned in there with the center cylinder - the rubber moves around and I guess (when everything is right) the pin can as well?
​​​​​​
In my idea of pressed fit bush, kinda "fixing" everything movement wise, would there be enough up and down movement with the JUST the center bore of the bush, rotating over the pin? Actually, once the pin was torqued down,,, would the bush even turn over the pin anymore? Seems like it would just immobilize everything. No good

 

Hahaha,,,, UCA = Upper Control Arms....
acronymS!!!

I looked at the xj40 and other early jaguar UCA set ups and I LIKES.....Now what!?

 

buy them i guess

 

Have NO idea what the measurements are with these, but something like this style (should it work) is what I had/have in mind. It's just dealing with the upright on the subframe, the way that's all set up, that may make it impossible... They had done so well in so many other cars (I love the UCA set up on my XJS) I'm wondering why jaguar did this with the XKs x100s... It's like a step backwards

 

I mean Upper Control Arm bushing. I was just being lazy

My take is that all the washers, shims and the sleeve are pinned when the pivot bolt is properly torqued and should not rotate. The material bearing surface inside the rubber bush (there is also brass? bush inside the rubber piece) rotates around the sleeve. The surface on the outer end of each rubber bears against the dished washers.
The 'give' in the rubber will allow some lateral movement along the sleeve.
​​​​​​
The centre bore of the pressed-in bush you've pictured would be pinched by the pivot bolt. In this case, it would behave in the same manner as the lower control arm bush where any rotational movement of the arm must twist the rubber insert.

QED

 

Ha! Especially because I do a lot of writing on my phone, I like acronyms. I just didn't "get" it...

The only thing I can say to alllllll of your ideas (as is usually the case, Michael) is,,,, RIGHT...!

So, let's say there was a bush that could be found that press fit into the upper. And, was pinched down as you rightly say, immobilizing everything. What if the PINCH was set, torquing of the pivot bolt, applying a preload slightly HIGHER than the top of the knuckle/hub upright (so the control arm needed to be slightly pushed down to get the ball joint bolt into its hole) and the thing was ran that way? How much verticle movement does the arm see? 2 inches, 3 inches, 4 inches?

If the lowers can tolerate that much movement, why not the uppers? Just wondering here...

 

Got measurements?
If I knew of a set that we even close spec wise, because I have an upper off the car already, I would give it a shot. But I don't want to buy something that would never work, size wise.

 

i have some sitting around

they’re like 7 bucks and if you buy on amazon you can return it

 

Ok... When I get home I'll measure out the ID on the upper arms. That's a start I guess. Will ya send an OD measurement for the bush you have?

 

I guess you could do that, but the suspension must become stiffer. What that would do to the ride & handling though, I don't know. I'm not an engineer so, rightly or wrongly, I put my trust in what was in the design engineer's head.

I guess poly will be the nearest you can get to the everlasting bush, but I don't like poly at all. YMMV

 

New and unexpected stresses on the aluminum of the subframe upright? Or maybe speed-en the enlarging of the holes that hold the pin of the aluminum upright? Bend the doggone fulcrum bolt? All good questions.

I'm sure that big ol xj40 must have had a smoooth ride. And, I thought it was the 4 lower bushings which when switched to poly really had an impact on stiffening the ride quality - I've done neither and have only know what I have read.

I'm not going to be doing this tomorrow or anytime soon but I really would like to see if it's at all possible.

All of this started because a guy at work had the uppers for a Honda Accord delivered to work, I looked at it, and it was all one unit - and it sent me thinking. Thinking maybe it would be better than the 10+ or so bits that go into my UCAs... There really has to be a better way.

 

Just my opinion, but l think any move to bonded rubber bushing on the upper control arm would be a retrograde step. Those control arm bearings used have served jaguar cars well for at least 50 years and by any measure of production car suspension standards jaguar rates pretty well.
poly might be considered an upgrade but that is only a material change, the operation of poly bushes is identical to the OEM uppers anyway ie. not bonded, free to rotate.

 

My only concern with your idea is the caster shims and where are you going to locate them to achieve the desired setting.
We have done poly and it's service has been good on Jon89's wife car, as information.

 

Yep, when Wayne and I installed the Bilstein front shocks and Welsh poly upper front shock mounts in early January 2016 at just under 99,000 miles, we also installed a set of poly upper control arm bushings as part of the job. The vehicle now has 122,925 miles and these poly components continue to hold up quite well. I ordered the four poly bushings off ebay from a seller in the UK and paid right at $75 for them. They took about two weeks to get here back then. No idea how much they would cost nor how long shipping would take these days....