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P0400 - Solution not so obvious

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  #1  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default P0400 - Solution not so obvious

Please help... I need to pass CA Smog test before the end of April.

It's a 2000 XKR with 127K miles on it. A few months ago I replaced the timing chains (All of them) and all of the chain tensioners and guide rails. She otherwise runs like a champ. The engine runs really smooth around town as I try to complete all the DTCs. I clear the codes every time I introduce a change to try and correct the problem. Still I get a P0400 before all of the tests complete. "...Exhaust
recirc flow..."

Here's a list of what I've done so far:
  1. Replaced the EGR valve with a new one.
  2. Cleaned the induction elbow. The EGR port was blocked by carbon. It came out like a plug.
  3. Checked for a cracked EGR to exhaust tube.
  4. Replaced brake booster vacuum tube o-ring at the induction elbow with a new one from the dealer
  5. Replaced the breather hose from the intake tube to the valve cover with a new one. It was cracked and had duct tape all over it when I bought the car.
I ran my battery down several times while making repairs over the past year. I’m able to get it started by jumping the battery with a Jump starter. I thought this would be good info to share incase anyone suspects that the battery may be causing the issue.
 
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:41 AM
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If you're continually having to jump start the vehicle, it sounds like your battery isn't holding charge? Battery condition isn't just important for starting, the on board monitoring systems also depend on it whilst the vehicle is running.

You've described replacing the EGR valve and cleaning all associated components so a suspect battery has to be the first thing to eliminate.

Graham
 
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2012, 07:16 AM
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Do be careful jump starting. There are very detailed instructions in the vehicle care manual but not the drivers handbook.

Emergency Starting Using Jump Leads
Both the booster and discharged battery should be treated with
great care when using jump leads. Always use high quality leads
capable of carrying the starter current of the vehicle to be
started.
Before commencing, the following precautions must be taken:
1. When the battery of another vehicle is being used, ensure
that the vehicles do not touch, or remove the charged battery
and place near to, not on, the vehicle with the discharged
battery.
2. Ensure that both vehicles have all electrical services OFF, the
handbrake is ON and the transmission is in Park.
3. Where the jump leads are of a different colour, e.g. red and
black, use red for positive (+). This aids identification and
helps to avoid crossing positive (+) to negative (–). Take extra
care to avoid crossing the polarity when using cables of the
same colour.
Caution:
1. If using a jump start vehicle, under no circumstances
should the vehicles come into contact with each other.
This could establish an earth connection, which may
cause sparks and damage.
2. Do not run the jump start vehicle’s engine when boost
starting a Jaguar Vehicle. If the jump start vehicle’s
engine is running and the jump leads are
disconnected, damage to the Jaguar vehicle’s electrical
system will result.
3. The booster battery voltage must not exceed 12 volts.
The following procedure must be followed exactly, being careful
not to cause sparks.
1. Apply the handbrake, select Park and turn off all the vehicles
electrical services.
2. Remove the luggage compartment floor panels.
3. Unclip the positive (+) terminal cover.
4. Attach one end of the red jump lead to the positive (+)
terminal of the booster battery and the other end to the
positive terminal of the discharged battery. Make sure that
a good connection is made. Do not allow the vehicles
to touch.
Caution: Do not connect the negative jump lead directly
to the negative (–) terminal of the discharged vehicle.
5. Attach one end of the black jump lead to the negative (–)
terminal of the booster battery and the other end to an earth
point on the vehicle being started. (Use the spare wheel
retaining bolt as shown.) The earth point must be at least
12 inches (305 mm) from the discharged battery. Make sure
that a good connection is made.
6. When started allow the engine to idle for five minutes before
disconnecting the cables.
7. Disconnect the black jump lead from the earth point and the
booster battery negative (–) terminal. Disconnect the red
jump lead from the positive (+) terminals of both batteries.
Note: Disconnection is done in the reverse order to the
connecting procedure.
8. Refit the positive terminal cover and the floor panels.

Don't try to start with a booster, you will fry the electronics.
As I said in another post I fried a Toyota brain (€1000) so I know this to be a real risk
 

Last edited by steveinfrance; 03-27-2012 at 07:41 AM.
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by steveinfrance
Do be careful jump starting. There are very detailed instructions somewhere but blowed if I can find them.
From memory if using another vehicle battery that vehicles engine must NOT be running.
Clip the + lead to battery + but the - lead to a bolt or the exhaust, not to battery -ve.
Don't try to start with a booster, you will fry the electronics.
As I said in another post I fried a Toyota brain (€1000) so I know this to be a real risk
They are in the Vehicle Care Handbook. Here's the relevant pages for the 2000 MY:

XK8 & R 2000 - Emergency Starting Procedure.pdf

Jaguar recommended procedure is exactly opposite to the way most of us have been jump starting vehicles for years.

Graham
 
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2012, 11:42 AM
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I have notice that before the battery would discarge to the point where it could no longer start the car only after 1 week of no use. I thought this was strange and thought there might be a drain somewhere. There was no owner's amnaul when I got the car.

The instructions you provoded are interesting to me. Mainly the part about "not starting the engine of the other booster car". Problem is I've jumped the car several times using the battery starter from Black and decker and when that wasn't charged I used the cables and my 740il with the engine running. I probably did this at least 5 times beacuse I was testing various functions of the car like the Drop top and the headlight which are both now fixed.

So If im lucky and didn't damage anything I should start with a fresh battery
even though the batter can start the car and keep it running. You imply that the batterry is used by the onboard monitors while the engine is running. What about the alternator? I though it was used to run the electronics while the engine was running and the battery was used when the engine is not running.
 
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DrkNyte
So If im lucky and didn't damage anything I should start with a fresh battery
even though the batter can start the car and keep it running. You imply that the batterry is used by the onboard monitors while the engine is running. What about the alternator? I though it was used to run the electronics while the engine was running and the battery was used when the engine is not running.
I think Jaguar are (rightly) paranoid about over-voltage being applied to the on-board computer either from a charger or another vehicle with the engine running.
I fried the Toyota simply by using a high current (10 amp) charger without disconnecting the battery. The garage told me I should have disconnected the battery, charged it, then reconnected it.
If your Jaguar battery is in good condition it will 'clamp' the voltage from either another battery or the car's own alternator (if the engine is running) to about 14 volts but if it isn't it could let the voltage get high enough to harm the electronics. The electronics should, of course be protected against over-voltage (just as the convertible roof pump should, of course, have a relief valve to prevent against excess pressure!!).
The on-board computer is effectively always connected across the battery whether the engine's running or not. When the engine's running the alternator keeps the battery charged.
If your battery goes flat it may be a dud battery or, as you say, some load from the car.
If you've got an ammeter here is the test procedure. Hope that helps.
 
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2012, 04:41 AM
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The ECU verifies the EGR flow by checking the difference in vacuum in the intake. So you might also have an issue with the MAP sensor (vacuum meter), worth to check.
 
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  #8  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:46 PM
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I put a brand new battery in the car. Drove it once around town for about 30 miles and an hour if in town driving. On my 2nd test drive the Check Engine light came on again. at around 50 miles and about 5 minutes of driving just as I got to cruising speed on the freeway (about 60 mph). When I came to a parking lot I noticed the car began to overheat. I quickly blasted the heater and the engine temp dropped almost immediately. back to the middle of the gauge. I parked and shut the car off. I checked the error P0400 again!!!! let the car cool down for about an hr. When I came back I tried to start...nada! I tried to get it started several times. Got Engine failsafe and Traction on the dash again I noticed that as before in the past the Temp gauge wen about half-way up and then dropped suddenly as the errors were being displayed on the dash. I thought about clearing the code but I decided that I would tap on the relays to see if I could giggle a shorted or stuck relay. I tapped on all the relays as if i was knocking on a door. twice in each relay. It worked...I was able to get it started. I also noticed that I had a blown 20 amp fuse. I went to the nearest auto zone to pick up some fuses. This is not the 1st time this fuse has blown.

Looks like I need to replace the stuck Relay (Ignition relay)

Is there a way to check the MAP sensor? I want to make sure i can verify this is the problem before spending another $200.

Also What could be causing the Fan Fuse to blow causing the cat to overheat?
 
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:24 PM
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There was an incorrect fuse #14 causing it to blow out every time the fans were supposed to come on. I didn't notice it before becasue the temp has only recently started to warm up outside. I've replaced it with the correct amp and checked all of the other fuses in the car. So my overheating issue is gone.

I also swapped the R1 relay in the engine compartment and this seems to have fixed the Engine Failsafe and other related messages.

After 2 attempts of driving I'm still getting the P0400 code.
I have reseated the Connector at the egr several times as recommended
I have reseated the MAPS sensor as well.

How can I check if the MAPs sesor is bad without buying a new one?
How do I check the EGR connector/signal to see if the EGR is not getting or sending the right signals?

I have a Digital Mutimeter and I do have a OBD II Code Reader model U851
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:21 AM
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Not sure without the dealer tools, where you can make better measurements. Are you sure the MAP sensor is connected right to the vacuum line, and there is no leak somewhere? Is the EGR pipe clean (ie not blocked)?
 
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2012, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DrkNyte
...........How do I check the EGR connector/signal to see if the EGR is not getting or sending the right signals?

I have a Digital Mutimeter and I do have a OBD II Code Reader model U851
If you've ruled out vacuum leak or the connector, this is the Pinpoint Test sequence for P0400:

JTIS - 2000 DTC 0400 Pinpoint Tests.pdf

You've already eliminated part of the sequence by replacing the EGR valve.

Graham
 
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2012, 10:20 AM
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Thanks guys, I'm leaning more towards the Vaccum leak or an incorrect line. reason why I say this is that I changed the tensioners and Timing chains along with a head gasket replacement before all of this started.

I struggled with the reconnection and routing of the vacuum lines. But I can hear the air passing when I disconnect it from the MAP Sensor. I followed the routing diagram in the engine bay as best I could. However, I noticed that the hose that leads from the throttle body to the MAP seems shorter than I remember. It can reach but barely any slack at all. I also noticed that it slips on the the MAP sensor easily almost too easily. It will stay in play but i would've expected this to be a tighter fit. On a side note I did replace a vacuum seal on the RH side of the intake elbow with a brake booster seal kit I got form the dealer. I checked the egr tube for blockages and for leaks. It's good to go. I also did the check provided for the EGR pinouts and that all looks good.

Can you explain the routing of the hoses to me on the LH Side of the TB? I want to make sure I have it routed properly. I also want to know the steps I need to rule out the Vacuum leak. I purchased a handheld brake bleeder/vacuum tester but I'm not sure on the correct procedures. Also I want to rule out the MAPs without having to actually buy one if possible. Those things are pricy
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:28 AM
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From memory, the vacuum line goes to the actuator (bypass valve for the supercharger), to the Evap system and MAP sensor. You can check the actuator if that one could be leaking but I am not sure how the EVAP works and if a leak there could cause any issues (you should find it in JTIS, there are some diagrams iirc). Ideally you should measure the values of the MAP sensor that can be compared here with other cars. As I don't have a MAP sensor, I can't give you a reference.
 
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:06 PM
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You can monitor the MAP sensor on some OBDII readers. It should read about 17in. HG vacuum or so at idle.
 
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:36 AM
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I cleared codes and ran 2 test drives then pulled a P0400 code again. Even though the DTC have not yet completed. I also got the pending P1000. After I got home I parked but did not shut of the engine and took the following readings from my scanner

At idle the DATA STREAM I'm getting:
IGN ADV(DEG) 3.0
IAT(C) 38
MAF (gm/sec) 4.950
ABSLT TPS(%) 1.1
O2S12 0.170(v) -0.7(%)
O2S22 0.090(v) -0.7(%)
Fuel SYS1 = CL, using HO2S
Fuel SYS2 = CL, using HO2S
Coolant (C) 105
ST FTRM1(%) -0.7
LT FTRM2(%) 7.0
ST FTRM2(%) -0.7
LT FTRM2(%) 9.3
MAP 54 Kpa
RPM 680 rpm

The "Freeze Frame" data captured the P0400 readings
Fuel SYS1 = OL, Drive Conditions
Fuel SYS2 = OL, Drive Conditions
CALC LOAD(%) 6.6
COOLANT (C) 91
ST FTRM1(%) 0.0
LT FTRM1(%) 7.0
ST FTRM2(%) 0.0
LT FTRM2(%) 9.3
MAP 55 Kpa
RPM 2052
SPEED 97 Kph
IAT(C) 23
MAF (gm/sec) 5.620
ABSLT TPS(%) 1.1

I/M Status Showing the competed tests:
MIL Ststus = On
Misfire Monitor = OK
Fuel System Monitor = OK
Comp COmponenet =OK
Catalyst Mon = inc.
Htd Catalyst =n/a
Evap System Mon =OK
Sec Air System =n/a
A/C Refrigerant Monitor =n/a
Oxygen Sens Mon = OK
Oxygen Sens Htr = OK
EGR System = OK
 
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DrkNyte
I cleared codes and ran 2 test drives then pulled a P0400 code again. Even though the DTC have not yet completed. I also got the pending P1000. After I got home I parked but did not shut of the engine and took the following readings from my scanner

At idle the DATA STREAM I'm getting:
IGN ADV(DEG) 3.0
IAT(C) 38
MAF (gm/sec) 4.950
ABSLT TPS(%) 1.1
O2S12 0.170(v) -0.7(%)
O2S22 0.090(v) -0.7(%)
Fuel SYS1 = CL, using HO2S
Fuel SYS2 = CL, using HO2S
Coolant (C) 105
ST FTRM1(%) -0.7
LT FTRM2(%) 7.0
ST FTRM2(%) -0.7
LT FTRM2(%) 9.3
MAP 54 Kpa
RPM 680 rpm

The "Freeze Frame" data captured the P0400 readings
Fuel SYS1 = OL, Drive Conditions
Fuel SYS2 = OL, Drive Conditions
CALC LOAD(%) 6.6
COOLANT (C) 91
ST FTRM1(%) 0.0
LT FTRM1(%) 7.0
ST FTRM2(%) 0.0
LT FTRM2(%) 9.3
MAP 55 Kpa
RPM 2052
SPEED 97 Kph
IAT(C) 23
MAF (gm/sec) 5.620
ABSLT TPS(%) 1.1

I/M Status Showing the competed tests:
MIL Ststus = On
Misfire Monitor = OK
Fuel System Monitor = OK
Comp COmponenet =OK
Catalyst Mon = inc.
Htd Catalyst =n/a
Evap System Mon =OK
Sec Air System =n/a
A/C Refrigerant Monitor =n/a
Oxygen Sens Mon = OK
Oxygen Sens Htr = OK
EGR System = OK

Well at idle the data looks OK. The MAP reading of 54 Kpa = about 16 in/Hg...so the MAP sensor seems to be working.

Something is definitley wrong on the freeze frame though. The fuel system says it has gone 'OL' = Open loop...it should be "CL", closed loop. With your RPM at 2052, the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is reading 1.1%, as if your foot is off the throttle. To me that makes the throttle body the suspect (since the TPS is not replaceable without a rebuild). I think vacuum (MAP reading) should also be down further at 2052 RPM.
 

Last edited by WhiteXKR; 04-19-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:18 PM
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The vacuum check by the ECU is done when you let go of the throttle, so it isn't odd to see the TPS almost closed. It looks low though, I can remember seeing much more vacuum after you let of the gas pedal, but as I don't have the values anymore I can't check it for you (and I have blocked my EGR long time ago).

Have you checked that the bypass valve is not leaking and operating? And are you sure the EGR pipe isn’t blocked?

Your ltft values are a little high (not directly a problem), what are they when you drive a steady 40 or 50 mph?
 
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:43 PM
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I may have been off the hammer at the time the "Freeze Frame" was captured. There were several hills in the area where the MIL came on. Engine RPM may still have been high if I was drifting downhill with the foot of the gas but I can't say for sure.

I did one other test. Using the Scanner reading MAPs at 0 RMP no engine start it reads 98 kPa. then at idel 54 kPa. This does indicate the MAP Sensor is working properly right? On a side not to confirm I have a brake bleeder vacuum tester I picked up from AutoZone. I connected it directly to the line that feeds the MAP sensor and got 12.5 in Hg but you indicated expected is at 16 in Hg. I'm not sure if vacuum testing in this manner makes any difference. But it reamains steadily there no needle fluctuation at idle. It also doesn't move when I give it gas up to 2500 RPM. I'm not sure if this bit of info helps either.

I've check the EGR Tube many different ways. I removed it form the EGR Valve and ran A wire through it to check for anu blockages. I've checked for Leaks using a turkey baster bulb attached to one end and it held the vacuum I applied to it for at lesat 30 min. I also checked the exhaust header port where the tube connects for blockages and I did clear an obvious blockage in the Intake elbow where the EGR meets up with the Intake elbow.

I would never have thought to check the Supercharger bypass valve. I do know where its located - its sandwitched between the Supercharger rear and the Left Hand air intake manifold. But how do I know if it's causing the P0400? What am I looking for? and what is teh proper test method. Also can you explain how this would cause the P0400?
 
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:07 AM
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Sorry, don’t know how exactly the measurement works on a 4.0 car. But it is only a very short test period, 1 or 2 seconds, right after you let go of the gas pedal. The ECU will measure the pressure difference with EGR open to close, and its looking for a very small difference, 1 reference I found speaks of < 1.5Kpa would trigger the code.

As it is such a small difference, I would just check everything that could have an effect to eliminate possible causes. Just put a tube on the bypass valve, suck vacuum, and see if it hold the vacuum. You should also see the valve move, if so, it’s another check in the box. Just like the check with the ltlft figures to see if there could be a vacuum leak somewhere, as 12.5 inches of mercuri is to low, and 54 kpa is about 13.5 Inches of mercury, so too low imho.
 

Last edited by avos; 04-20-2012 at 03:54 AM. Reason: forgot to mention in italic
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:43 PM
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Hi Avos, If I understand this correctly it measures the difference in Pressure/Vacuum between open and close of the EGR, Right? If my reference is say 12.5 and there no drop (or raise) in vaccum between EGR Open and Close it should be OK Right? Like I mentiond before I didn't see any fluctuation when as I rev'd it up to 2500 and back down. This teat was performed while in (P)ark, Should I have been in gear while driving to meet the proper condition for opening closing of the EGR?
 
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