I've heard all the horror stories about changing transmission fluid, but over 45 years of repairing all manner of vehicles, I've never experienced any of the problems others have reported. I suspect that many of the bad outcomes may have been the result of the use of incorrect fluid or incorrect fluid level.
Cheers,
Don
I agree and would add my 55 years of experience to your 45 so we're now talking 100 years. 👍
I believe that simple ATF drain-and-fills for these aging ZF units are always a good idea. Keep in mind that a simple drain-and-fill typically replaces just over half of the fluid in the system. We have owned my wife's 2006 XK8 (ZF 6HP26) for just over 12 years now. I did the first ATF drain-and-fill at 67,300 miles (using LifeGuard 6). I did the second ATF drain-and-fill at 100,700 miles (using Mercon SP). I did the third ATF drain-and-fill at 106,000 miles (using Mercon SP) to ensure that the vast majority of the ATF in the system would be Mercon SP. I now know that this third drain-and-fill at such a short interval was unnecessary because Mercon SP is simply LifeGuard 6 colored red instead of amber (and was less than one-third the price at that time)....
I also had the ZF 6HP26 Adaptations Drive Cycle procedure (TSB JTB00145) performed at 68,000 miles (July 2013) and again at 101,500 miles (April 2016) by the Jaguar dealership in Greensboro, NC due to my wife complaining about intermittent rough upshifts. This procedure immediately cured the rough upshifts both times. The dealership will no longer perform that procedure because they no longer possess the hardware or software necessary to do so....
Now at 126,450 miles, her ZF 6HP26 continues to function perfectly. It does less than 1,500 miles per year (I take the car out at least once per week for a 25-mile romp to keep it happy and healthy). Here's hoping it remains that way for a long time to come....
I can add another 50+ years of experience in the transportation industry to your total.
I bet the X100 subforum alone could surpass 500 years cumulative experience easily.
Z
Well I could round up plenty who would agree with me 💯. And could include some from Ford motor company engineering and R&D. However, what's the point? I gave advice from what I know to be fact. Do with it what you will
Your post said "When they told you not to change the fluid, they were probably referring to a high milage vehicle. If a vehicle has a lot of miles, and hasn't had the transmission serviced regularly, don't. This often ends with the transmission failing shortly after. Om a low mileage or a vehicle that has regularly been serviced, changing the fluid is good."
That post is all about the age of the fluid.
Whatever you've seen, you have misunderstood.
Richard
Still failed to read " that hasn't been serviced regularly" 🤔
Still failed to read " that hasn't been serviced regularly" 🤔
Jaguar recommend no service interval for the gearbox. ZF recommend a fluid change, with accompanying filter and sleeve change, every 100k km approx for their gearboxes
What alternative regular servicing, other than the above, do you recommend that both Jaguar and ZF have failed to mention?
ZF originally claimed its 6HP transmissions were "Sealed for Life," but subsequently the company revised its recommended fluid change interval as follows:
It's fair to assume that a high percentage of Jaguars experience trips at high speeds and/or sporty driving, so this revised interval probably applies to most of us. This equates to a fluid change every 50,000 to 62,000 miles or no later than every 8 years.
I am attaching the ZF document that presents this revised service interval. I'm also attaching a document from a ZF parts dealer that gives important information on the valve body seals that should be replaced when the 6HP is serviced, as well as ZF instructions for replacing the electrical connector sleeve that often develops leaks and should also be replaced when the transmission is serviced, since the sleeve lock can only be unlatched with the pan removed. On the Mercedes-Benz 722.6 / W5A580 transmissions the connector sleeve has a small captive hex-head screw in the center that must be loosened to remove the sleeve.
BMW uses the same ZF trans, and they even put a sticker on the pans stating it's a "lifetime fill," yet not defining "lifetime." So, nobody ever serviced them and I've heard many stories about BMW dealers refusing to service them due to them having a "lifetime fill."
I've also heard the "don't change fluid on an old trans" hundreds of times. Here's my experience. I bought an E46 with around 195,000 miles. Terribly neglected by the PO. Following my SOP, I did a trans service right out of the gate. I drove it for another 10K miles, more or less, and the trans failed. I tore down the trans and in one of the drums the clutch disks were almost all metal-to-metal. I'm sorry, but I don't care how much "friction material" was in the old fluid, that trans didn't have long to live, old fluid or not. So, my theory has always been that if you change fluid (NOT doing a flush, just a fluid/filter change) and the trans dies, it was at death's door to begin with. The worst that you could have done is give it a nudge over the edge.
my 2002 XKR with the Mercedes transmission had 116,000 miles on it when I purchased it 6+ years ago. I had the transmission serviced which included a a full fluid replacement.
the old fluid looked 20 + years old. And smelled like it too. The car has detailed service records, and nowhere in them is a transmission service mentioned. So it safe to assume that ATF in the transmission is the original fluid and had 116,000 miles / 20+ years on it.
After the correct fluid was sourced and added to the transmission there were no shifting problems or any other assorted transmission issues.
What is the correct fluid for the Mercedes transmisson?
Hi tmattson57,
Post #5 in the thread you linked to is still valid, but for the benefit of future readers of this thread, here are most of the approved or known-equivalent fluids for the three transmissions used in X100s:
Mercedes-Benz 722.6 / W5A580:
(Fluids approved on M-B Sheet 236.10 then updated on Sheet 236.14)
Mercedes-Benz ATF MB 236.14
Fuchs Titan ATF 4134
Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1600
Mobil ATF 134
Motul ATF 236.14
Pentosin ATF 134
Ravenol ATF M 9-Serie
Shell ATF 134
Shell Spirax S6 ATF 134M
Shell Spirax ATF M 5+
Valvoline ATF Pro 236.14 (NOTE: This is NOT one of Valvoline's Maxlife ATFs, which are not compatible with the 722.6 (or the ZF 5Hp & 6HP) regardless of what their labels may say)
ZF 5HP24:
ZF Lifeguard 5
ESSO LT 71141
Mobil 1 LT 71141
Febi Automatikgetriebeöl (ATF) Nr. 29738
VW/Audi G 052 162 A2
Pentosin ATF 1
Ravenol ATF 4/5 HP
(no Valvoline or Castrol products are known to be correct in the 5HP24 despite what their labels may say)
ZF 6HP26:
ZF Lifeguard 6
Ford Motorcraft Mercon SP
Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP
(no Valvoline or Castrol products are known to be correct in the 6HP26 despite what their labels may say)
Is it necessary/advisable to change the conductor plate when servicing the MB tranny? My XKR has 90k and I don't believe the tranny has ever been serviced.
Is it necessary/advisable to change the conductor plate when servicing the MB tranny? My XKR has 90k and I don't believe the tranny has ever been serviced.
FWIW, the Shell 134 is among the lease expensive on the approved fluid list, and is working very well in my 2002 with the Mercedes A/T.
Dont change the plate unless there’s a fault in it. ie …. leave it alone.
i changed mine , just because it was an old part and I’ve regretted it ever since. The plate I used was a fraud knock-off of the MB part right down to a (poor) stamping of the MB logo.
The copy of the original has some fault in it and I get occasional random and spurious HIGH TRANS HEAT messages on the dash when in actuality the transmission temp is normal or even cold.
That never happened with the original part, which I don’t have anymore (damn).
if you do decide to replace the conductor plate someday, try to find a genuine MB part thats coming in a MB box. Counterfeiters usually don’t bother making a fake box.
My experience is the same as Ray's regarding Shell ATF 134. I usually buy 12 quarts at a time from eBay sellers like partscontainer and edo performance. I can usually find it for around $10.00 USD per quart.
Regarding the conductor plate, unless you are having the known 722.6 shifting issue or have relevant transmission diagnostic trouble codes stored, then I completely agree with Ray: leave the conductor plate alone. In my experience, conductor plate problems are more common with the later 722.9 7G-Tronic seven-speed boxes (turbine speed sensors, etc.).
If your connector sleeve is leaking you can replace it from outside the transmission. Use an inspection mirror to check for signs of fluid on the contact pins. Access is tight, but it's doable. Just don't overtighten the screw in the center of the sleeve that secures it to the conductor plate connector. It just needs to be snug, and there are accounts of guys overtighening the screw and breaking the screw or the threaded bushing in the conductor plate, which will ruin your day. It is easier to insert the new sleeve if you apply a little silicone grease (dielectric grease) to the O-rings. There are aftermarket sleeves available, but I highly recommend using a genuine Mercedes-Benz OEM part. They only cost about $20.00. Here are the part numbers:
