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XK8 / XKR ( X100 ) 1996 - 2006

Why does it take so long to Start-up?

 
  #21  
Old 01-22-2018, 08:31 AM
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If you feel the battery is new and up to par, then measure the voltage at the power block in the engine compartment while you are cranking. If the voltage dips a lot, then some computers will not work correctly and lead to the usual DSC fault and window memory loss. It can be a situation where the battery is fine, but the path to the power blocks is not. There are posts about this. There is a power block in the trunk with lugs that get loose and heavy-gauge cables to the battery posts that internally fail. This leads to high resistance, and therefore high voltage drop when high current is requested. Just my thoughts.
 
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  #22  
Old 01-22-2018, 11:09 PM
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Exclamation Here we go!

fmertz, Avos & all:

It seems that the majority has come up with a plan.....I'm going to check the Electrical System first! Starting with the Battery and then on through the entire electrical system with hopes of finding something.....I will let you know what I come up with...you can count on it! I hope that is where the trouble is, as I'm getting tired of this problem child! She reminds me of my Wife, absolutely Beautiful but always has a problem, I know you understand!

Billy Clyde
 
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  #23  
Old 01-23-2018, 08:54 AM
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My old habits... turn key on to charge fuel injection for a few seconds. I usually let all the ding dings and dongs quiet down before crank. When Jag sits for week 10 days, it does take a bit of cranking. Always has. On vintage carburetor vehicles when sitting a bit I crank engine for a couple seconds to build oil pressure then pump the accelerator to activate auto choke. Old habits...
 
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:31 AM
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if it provides a useful comparison. mine sat since the end of October under a cover on a battery maintainer. last run was a twenty minute drive to the place where it was parked. after checking the oil level and the air filter box and its associated hardware, turned key to on, waited for the indicator lights test to stop, cranked for less than three seconds for a good startup. any time a mechanically sound engine fails to start in reasonable time there is a problem with the fuel pulse. there might be a way to test the system by connecting a meter to an injector and then cranking the engine. some do this with a test light. if you get no signal on crank, or it takes a while, you know if the cam sensor or something else is not sending a signal on crank. if you do have a proper pulse, then the fuel delivery circuit is suspect.
 
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  #25  
Old 01-23-2018, 09:53 PM
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THREE 'brand new' AGM batteries over the last ~six months; two from Autozone, and one from O'Rielly's. The only one that had a date of manufacture sticker on it of 10/17, was the last battery from Autozone which was another exchange, as the previous one failed to hold a charge, and they tested each to determine if my car killed them. All of the other batteries date stickers had been removed prior to purchase.

The O'Rielly's battery had a label or more of a note, taped to the bottom, indicating it had been shipped in from Kennewick which is a city over, due to lack of demand for that group of battery, and time in stock, this battery would not hold a charge over 12.50V.

Each of these 'new' batteries caused a different symptom to occur in my car. The first one caused intermittent warnings to display during startup, the interior lights would shut off quickly with the door open, or upon key insertion the top down cycle would start to begin.

The next battery caused window drop and it would need to be charged if the car was not driven for more than a day and a half, I have been chasing a giant parasitic drain, or so I thought, it turned out to be the batteries, mostly. The last one caused longer start cycles and ABS module madness shutting down ACC, DSC, ABS, ETC.

Does your battery have a date of manufacture sticker on it, or was it removed prior to purchase? These batteries could conceivably sit for years on the shelf, being charged on a monthly basis. Mechanical damage is also possible as I am sure one of the batteries had been dropped prior to my purchase due to the cracked bottom ridge I discovered when installing the battery. Good luck.
 
  #26  
Old 01-24-2018, 05:31 AM
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I'm under the impression that AGM is not a suitable kind as they require a different charging regime than the ordinary lead acid the car is designed for.
 
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:31 PM
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Default What is the difference AGM & Regular?

Originally Posted by JagV8 View Post
I'm under the impression that AGM is not a suitable kind as they require a different charging regime than the ordinary lead acid the car is designed for.
Please tell me what the difference is between a AGM Battery and a plain old everyday Battery? My Battery is an Interstate with water inside.....

Billy Clyde in Houston
 

Last edited by bcprice36; 01-24-2018 at 08:34 PM.
  #28  
Old 01-26-2018, 12:35 PM
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Please put a bit of effort in on the internet...
 
  #29  
Old 01-27-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JagV8 View Post
Please put a bit of effort in on the internet...

Wow! Mr. JagV8,


Sorry to have bothered you!
Have a nice Day..........
How are things in Yorkshire today? Must be pretty Cloudy?


Billy Clyde in Houston
 

Last edited by bcprice36; 01-27-2018 at 07:23 PM.
  #30  
Old 01-27-2018, 07:15 PM
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Smile Beginning to narrow it down!!

Gentleman and Norri,

I think we've about narrowed it down to the Fuel Pump or whatever it is that keeps the fuel from backing-up in the Fuel Injector System..

I drove to the Office this morning, after a long start-up at Home. After I parked and killed the Engine...I thought why not try it right now? I guess it had been about a minute or so and it started right up! So, I waited 5 minutes and tried it again....Took to the count of 2....... and then 10 more minutes....Took to the count of 3 and then 4 and 5 after 30 minutes!......So, what is happening, (apparently) is the fuel is backing back down to the Gas Tank and has to be pumped back up each time I leave it for any time.......I assume that's the Fuel Pump....At least I have a starting place, thanks to all you Guys telling me to do this and that.....My Fuel Pump is about 3 months old but I have heard all kinds of stories about Jaguar replacement Pumps being junk! I will confirm it soon as I hope to get this one replaced....by the Dealer's Parts Department...."Good Luck with that"?

Thanks for your Help and many ideas.....I was wondering if someone makes a pressure sensor that would show Fuel Pressure at the end of the fuel line?
Anyone ever heard of one for the XKR? I know I can find a "Hot-Rod" one some place......

Billy Clyde in Houston
 
  #31  
Old 01-27-2018, 08:18 PM
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Good deduction on the time variable as this points to a check valve and not the actual pump that has to compensate for a empty fuel line . You can tap in a fuel pressure gauge from what I've heard there is a tap fitting I heard refereed to as a schrader valve on this engine . I don't have this engine . But in my opinion you have the information you need to replace the check valve and can skip the pressure gauge .

This check valve may actually be part of the pump assembly or on the outside of the tank as someone with more experience may come along with the knowledge or a reference fuel system diagram . I faintly recall there was a change in fuel pump design after a changeover VIN #

See link below :

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-valve-111680/

 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 01-27-2018 at 08:30 PM.
  #32  
Old 01-27-2018, 09:14 PM
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There is a schrader valve on the fuel rail. I have to double check, but Harbor Freight makes a fuel pressure gauge kit with a number of adapters. Might just work, fairly inexpensive.

Other free option is to read the pressure off of the OBDII data (this is a standard PID). An ELM327 can do it. But I understand the catch 22. You need the power to read the value, but the power turns the pump back on. Maybe you can (temporarily) remove the fuel pump relay or fuse to avoid pressuring back up.

FWIW, I seem to remember (rev Sam?) the return valve of these pumps being problematic, even on brand new pumps. And these are _expensive_ too.
 
  #33  
Old 01-27-2018, 09:38 PM
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Question Fuel Pumps in Today's World!

Fmertz & Lady P.,

I don't think much of Jaguar's Fuel Pump! But I noticed that some of the Jag Parts websites have a pump that is suppose to fit! They are not a Jaguar Part but they must be pretty good or these Guy's wouldn't be selling them......First things first, I have to find out if Jaguar will replace this pump! What are chances of that? If I remember correctly, the darn thing cost $700. to $800. Bucks.....Barrett is about $650.00....Anyone have any ideas!!!!

Billy Clyde:
 

Last edited by bcprice36; 01-27-2018 at 09:40 PM. Reason: removed Icon about the toliet
  #34  
Old 01-27-2018, 10:06 PM
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You can put a string on the fuse so you can pop it out quickly to minimize arcing as you remove .

The problem with ELM327 is the time of the learning curve but if you put a gauge on it the garage would be more excepting during show and tell .
 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 01-27-2018 at 10:10 PM.
  #35  
Old 01-27-2018, 10:36 PM
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Default ELM 327

Originally Posted by fmertz View Post
There is a schrader valve on the fuel rail. I have to double check, but Harbor Freight makes a fuel pressure gauge kit with a number of adapters. Might just work, fairly inexpensive.

Other free option is to read the pressure off of the OBDII data (this is a standard PID). An ELM327 can do it. But I understand the catch 22. You need the power to read the value, but the power turns the pump back on. Maybe you can (temporarily) remove the fuel pump relay or fuse to avoid pressuring back up.

FWIW, I seem to remember (rev Sam?) the return valve of these pumps being problematic, even on brand new pumps. And these are _expensive_ too.
fmertz,

I've noticed that you refer to the ELM 327 quite often....I have one and have it plugged in and the light is on! I also have an iPhone4s with the Dash Command program and as today when I went to the index page it showed me that my XKR was programed in....I hit the connect button and it will never connect.....I've tried it with the engine running and without.....Do you have any programs you might suggest where I can learn more about this thing? I printed-out about 20 pages from the designers website but really don't get much out of it.....I'm missing out on so many things that the XKR is trying to tell me......and I can't hear it......any suggestions?

Billy Clyde
 
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:04 PM
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The ELM327 devise driver version 1.3 or 1.5 , not the operating software .
 
  #37  
Old 01-28-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by fmertz View Post
There is a schrader valve on the fuel rail. I have to double check, but Harbor Freight makes a fuel pressure gauge kit with a number of adapters. Might just work, fairly inexpensive.
Not all cars have the Schrader valve, mine doesn’t. Very irritating I might add, something about EPA fuel vapor rules. Seems to have kicked in somewhere around 2003/4 but it apparently wasn’t a clean break as there is a mix in that period.
 
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Old 01-28-2018, 04:52 PM
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For connecting to an iPhone, you need either one of the older ELM327 with WiFi or one of the newer ones with both WiFi and Bluetooth. The Bluetooth-only version only works on Android.

For a successful connection, the main computer needs to be powered on, so the ignition must be on. It also works with the engine running.

I use TorquePro on an Android device, I know nothing about Dash Command. You might want to re-do all the settings. Maybe go to the WiFi settings and delete the connection so you can try and do it again. I am sure Dash Command offers at least a forum for assistance. There might be a button on the device for "pairing".

FWIW, that ELM327 data sheet is a pretty good read. Detailed enough to get a sense of what is going on, but high level enough for a good education. It definitely helped me.
 
  #39  
Old 01-28-2018, 08:46 PM
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Default ELM327 Problem!

fmertz,

The problem is that I had an old one that worked.....I didn't know how to work it and one of the Guys here wanted to try it so....I had to buy another....It's one of the little Blue ones that sticks-out about an inch and a half an turns Red inside.....It's suppose to work with the iPhone but who knows......Anyway, I guess I'll go ask for my old one back as it actually worked......Dash Command is the program that is sorta made for the iPhone rather than the Android, like your TorquePro..

What I want is to be able to look at the Fuel Trims that "Avos" is always talking about...He kind of lives by them! Also, to be able to find out what the ECU sees!

Thanks!

Billy Clyde
 
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:23 PM
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Smile To all who came to my aid!

You Guys and Norri had some really good suggestions as to the starting problem I was having but in the end "Sweet Sugar" solved her own problems!

After going through the count to 6 deal again Monday Morning, She finally came to life! I started my journey through George Bush Park and at about the half way point, She coughed a couple times and died.....That was it! The Wrecker hauled it to the Shop and here is what we found:
The Fuel Pump that was put in new in October was gone. Jaguar gave me another (No Charge)! Now it would start right up like it is suppose to but it would die....Start and die...Start and die......Problem solved: Smart Junction Fuse/Relay Box in the Boot....simple fix!! Replace it! Bunch of Green Backs were spent Today when it was delivered to the Office....."Bunch!" When I closed-up and went to the Parking-Lot, She was all pretty and ready to go...Started at the count of one!! Oh Happy Day!!!

As I approached the last Gas Station before the Park, another yellow light came on.....The one on the Gas Gauge....So, there went another $45.00 Bucks for Gas......My Heaven Guys! You just can't win!! But Thanks again for all the suggestions! That little Box in the Boot cost $790.00, that's about what I paid for my first VW Bug and about the only thing Electronic on it was the Generator.......and they only cost about $40.Bucks back in the 60's

Billy Clyde in Houston
 
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