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Why does it take so long to Start-up?

 
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Old 01-19-2018, 05:46 PM
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Question Why does it take so long to Start-up?

My 2005 XKR takes 5 to 6 seconds to start-up.....Use to start by just hitting the starter but now for the last 6 or 7 months, it's gotten into this grinding habit.......Just cranks & cranks before it starts and then it runs a little rough for a couple seconds or so.........I've been worried a few times when I've counted to 6 whether it would start but so far it always has! Something is not right! I need HELP!


Billy Clyde in Houston
 
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:18 PM
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Hi Billy Clyde,

I had the same problem with my 2004 Platinum Vert.

this may be the problem...OR?

The fuel pump was sucking fuel back into the tank after I turned off the car... Jaguar quirk, as later pumps are not made well , so I found out.

So off to my Indy shop and got a quote for almost 2 grand to fix it...as the pump is in the tank... so tank has to be removed

The pump alone was around $800 and later XK's can't use the $105 earlier pump, for many configuration change reasons.

So I said forgetaboutit and my Indy said this...

So car starts fine first thing, but on the second and subsequent starts thru the day he said just turn the key all the way on [not start] count to 5 or so and the electric fuel pump will fill the line and fuel rail and it will start and don't do more the 10 seconds as the electric fuel pump cycles off after that.

So what I do is turn the key all the way on [not start] and then get the seat-belt hooked up and get comfy, do sound check[music] etc etc.. then turn key and hit start.... and it starts fine

Hope you find the problem if it not what mine had...
Cheers,
Andy
 
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:18 PM
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Billy I was going to bridge onto this topic (mine takes longer to start in cold weather) when it hit me - 6 seconds. That's a long time! Is it really taking that long?

Reminds me of my 1984 XJ6 that extended cranking was a sure sign of an air leak between the MAF and the throttle. Any chance it may be the same on yours?

John
 
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:17 PM
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Do you have a code P0340 Camshaft position sensor fail , not the Crankshaft ?
 
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnken View Post
Billy I was going to bridge onto this topic (mine takes longer to start in cold weather) when it hit me - 6 seconds. That's a long time! Is it really taking that long?

Reminds me of my 1984 XJ6 that extended cranking was a sure sign of an air leak between the MAF and the throttle. Any chance it may be the same on yours?

John
John & Andy,

Thanks so much for NOT telling me to check my Battery! I forgot to mention that both the Battery and The Alternator ARE new........As you can see, I just about tried everything.....Andy! including the new Fuel Pump, the new Filter and well you name it!!!!!! John, Tell me more about the Air leak because YES it takes pretty much anywhere from 4 to 6 seconds every time I start it....I've tried the turn the Key on and fasten my Seatbelt....NO! Listen for the Fuel Pump to run.....I can't hear it run......I left it on for as much as the count of 10 before I hit it....but it still takes up to the count of 5 or 6.......I'm sure it's something simple but I guess my mind is simpler.....

Lady Penelope, I don't know but I plan to find out now that you mentioned it....Could you tell me more about it? Please!!!

BC
 

Last edited by bcprice36; 01-19-2018 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Added Note Penelope.....
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Old 01-19-2018, 09:05 PM
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There is a TSB on a troubleshooting tree for the earlier V8 but yours is a later version so they are pretty close with some exceptions .

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/...0Diagnosis.pdf

On the fuel pump you can put your finger on the relay and feel for the first click as you rotate the key to the on position before start . The pump will turn back off after 3 - 4 seconds . This primes the fuel rail . The pump turns back on as a 3rd click after the ECU sees engine rotation by the Crankshaft sensor , not the Camshaft . This is a safety / crash design .

The Camshaft sensor is more refined and is used in the initial start sequence in spark and injector timing and if the ECU doesn't see it it reverts to the Crankshaft which takes longer to start .
 

Last edited by Lady Penelope; 01-19-2018 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 01-19-2018, 09:15 PM
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Billy Clyde
I feel the pain your having.... diagnosis on jags is some times quite tedious

Not to make this trifle...they do love going to the shop at our expense ... aaaah the life of owning these sexy cars ...& it IS so worth it too

I do hope you find the gremlin in the start-up snafu and share the cure when you do please.

Cheers,
Andy
 
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Old 01-19-2018, 09:41 PM
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The 2003+ cars have a single ended fuel system and the pump has a check valve built into it to prevent the fuel from draining out of the fuel rail and back to the tank.

That check valve can fail and let the fuel drain away from the injectors, causing the long start. For the most part it will only happen if the engine is shut down while hot. The warm fuel in the rails expands and pushes the rest back to the tank.

If you cycle the key you can “pump up” the system before starting the car.

My car does it and I have replaced the pump once. The issue came back eventually and now I just put up with it. It is harmless enough while the car is running, the pressure is very consistent.

Interestingly, when I tightened up the lugs on the high current fuse a few months ago, it seems to be better. Not gone, but less frequent.
 
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Old 01-20-2018, 04:29 AM
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The two sensors involved in fuelling the later models are FRP (Fuel Rail Pressure) and ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature).

It sounds like you've (almost) eliminated fuel pump and ECT is unlikely to be sending an out-of-range signal on cold start so FRP could be the culprit.

Graham
 
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GGG View Post
The two sensors involved in fuelling the later models are FRP (Fuel Rail Pressure) and ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature).
Hmm, from memory, there is an actual fuel temperature sensor on the rail, too, besides the fuel pressure sensor. Need to check if available over OBDII, but it must be available over the data bus somehow...
 
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:15 PM
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Turn your key on and count to 5 or 10 then try to start the car and see if you see a change.
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:15 AM
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Thumbs down Thanks!Gus....

Originally Posted by Gus View Post
Turn your key on and count to 5 or 10 then try to start the car and see if you see a change.
Gus, Tried that, done that and NO change...still had to crank on it for 5 seconds!!!!!

I think I will try some of these other suggestions with hope that one might work! This is getting to be pretty trying as I start thinking about 4 seconds into each start up.....What if it doesn't start? beginning to wear on me!

Billy Clyde
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:52 AM
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Okay, since everyone is mentioned the fuel pump, sensors, etc. and you have a new alternator and battery, there is only one thing left to inspect/check. I'd like to offer that you have the starter motor inspected. I have experienced longer than normal starting and it turned out to be worn contacts on the starter motor. The increased amperage draw made for longer starts. It could be as simple as having the starter motor rebuilt (usually for a fraction of the cost if you are mechanically inclined).

Just a suggestion.
Jose
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:09 PM
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Question DSC System Fault...............

Fellow XKR Lovers!

This Starting problem has been going on for so long that I have become used to it...So much so that I forgot what could be and important point.....I've just sort of ignored it for the last couple of months.......While I am trying to start the Coupe the Reader on the Speedo lights-up and says "DSC System Fault" all the time the Starter is engaged then goes out when the Engine starts. I don't know what that means.......I thought it had something to do with the Brakes....Also, lately something is going on with the Electrical system as sometimes the Windows will lose their memory.....Not every time but it is getting more regular......I have no idea if this has anything to do with the starting problem are not but I thought I better bring it up.....Sorry, I just forgot! What could Dynamic Stability Control have to do with this?

Billy Clyde
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bcprice36 View Post
Thanks so much for NOT telling me to check my Battery! I forgot to mention that both the Battery and The Alternator ARE new
BC
Sorry, but DSC fault and windows failing to rise are classic battery symptoms.
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Norri View Post
Sorry, but DSC fault and windows failing to rise are classic battery symptoms.
But Norri, Those things ARE new! within 6 months......What should I do or what should I check......? Would you start all over again? say another new Battery? or a different Brand? Mine is an Interstate......If so, what brand should I get? and if something is wrong with my Battery....why or how is it that I can continue to crank over and over for 5 or 6 seconds several times a day? Also, the Windows work just fine......They just lose their memory say every third day!!!!and this memory thing just started last week......Also, this DSC Fault thing has done this from time to time over the past 5 years. I guess I've become accustom to it flashing on ever now and then over the years....But now it stays on all the time I am holding the Key.......

If you feel it's the Battery, I will happily run down an get another, as I really don't care about the cost anymore.....I just want it fixed! What Brand of Battery should I buy for the Coupe? Does the XKR require a special Brand?

Thanks! Norri.....BC
 

Last edited by bcprice36; 01-21-2018 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 01-21-2018, 11:22 PM
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Measuring is key, so 1st check your actual fuel pressure during a start, then you know.

A more unsure way to check, is to cycle the ignition as ccfulton mentioned. At least on the 4.0 cars, once you turn on the ignition, the pump will run for 2 seconds to prime the lines. So try to do that 3 times, and then try a full start.

the issues you mention additionally do llo like power ones, so battery, or corroded cables/fuses? If you draw more power than the battery can deliver you can get these type of errors.

Not sure how you can measure that, you would need to have a good car, measure voltages at different points (and starting, and then compare that to yours.
 
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:20 AM
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You could test the battery.

Maybe it was (or is) OK but you have a drain? Or a bad power/ground somewhere that then trigger the message(s)?
 
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:01 AM
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load test the battery which many auto-parts stores can do for you.

this can also be due to low compression in the cylinders, perhaps bad valve seals.
 
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:15 AM
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+1 on the load test, then I'd focus on the other electrical issues that avos mentioned, connections, cables etc.
It sounds power related to me.
Don't condemn the battery yet even though it looks guilty.
 

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