Just came across the below disturbing post on the UK Jaguar Forum.

Can't imagine how an English car could rust,.....(heavy sarcasm)...but thought the new zinc treatment/dipping system during production had addressed most of this. (Room for loads of naivete here).

And am wondering if I need to be worried about my car that apparently was never out in the winter........

Has anyone done any after market undercoating on their XK?

Have any suggestions for what type would be best for this procedure?

cheers,

jj

XKR MOT shocker!

by ducatiphil » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:13 pm
Just had my 99 XKR tested today and they rang to say it needs 2 brake pipes, a plate previously welded on floorpan needs rewelding to correct a previous bad repair, no drama there really. But the biggy was that where the front subframe is mounted all the body is "soft" with rust! I have to call in in the morning to have a look and then decide what to do. I bought the car in August and the previous MOT had no advisories and was only 4,000 miles ago! The car has done 117,000 but drives perfectly and I really do fear I have bought a rot box. Does anyone have any previous experience of the tin worm in this area?

Jaguar Forum.co.uk • View topic - XKR MOT shocker!

 

I recently rebuilt the front end on my 2000 XKR after an altercation with a gate post. what I found was quite disturbing. There is a complete lack of any underseal on the front end of these cars. I found all the front brake lines to be badly corroded and all the surrouding metal work rusty. I replaced all the lines , not an easy task and treated all areas with a rust preventer. For what was an expensive car at the time, £65000, the lack of a few quids worth of underseal seems a bit penny pinching indeed. Maybe the accountants at Ford had something to do with it?

 

my previouse xk8 was scrapped because of the rot it had. i could put my finger through both rear arches, the floor pans were gone. both sils were gone , it was discracefull. didnt stop me buying another one though. real shame they suffer with rust

 

I was on the fence regarding installing one of those electronic rust proofing systems, but I think this post has convinced me to do so.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that better rust proofing was among the improvements made to the later (2003+) models. Does anyone know if that is so?

 

Found this....

Hole in the floor - XK8 - PistonHeads mobile

Reading on an iPad so not sure about the "mobile" bit in the link.

 

Thanks Mal;

As usual XK Racer is ahead of all of us.

Anyone know the answer to my question and Ohio's regarding '03-'04's or are we just wishing on the Jaguar Rainbow?

cheers,

jj

 

Nope same rust proofing all the way through I am afraid, if you want to see something really bad.... look at this










Every XK will suffer like this I am afraid unless pampered most severely

 

"Every XK will suffer like this I am afraid unless pampered most severely "

Is this an issue because of water retention from the ocassional rainy day and lack of proper drainage???

Or do you think that salt and chemicals that are applied to the streets from the winter days (I thought most owner put them away then) is more to blame...

The reason I am asking is where I live the climate is great but we have the salt ocean air with the daily sun shower...(when we are not in a drought) so puddles could be fairly common,,, but chemicals not... So drainage could be a concern on this model???

My 1995 XJ had no rust was near perfect for 141,000 miles,,, In the battery compart I placed the battery in a plastic box and cleaned and repainted the whole area before anything Would of Happened,,, It was bothering me that the factory DID NOT finish it off properly. So I did...

 

Hi Not a pretty sight,certainly don't want mine to go the same way.I have bought different tins of Dinitrol to spray into the cavities or as a sealer. I am more keen on the wax treatment because you can see what is going on rather than covering up with underseal.If you have a small compressor it's easy but a bit messy.Cover up your rotors and calipers first give a generous spray on the brake lines and underbody.So far I have taken my front wheelarch liners out and sprayed all up in there and back down to the door posts.Will keep an eye on things and retreat as necessary.Waxoil is another good product that i have used in the past.
Hope we can keep the dreaded rust at bay or at least slow it down.
Al

 

I think the rust problem is insulting to all the buyers. My 95 XJ6 is not having this problem and it is a daily driver. Heck even Henry Ford with the Model A did a metal prep treatment before painting. That is one reason there is still so many of them left. I have one (1928) and could see the benefit when I reatored it. I just don't understand why Jag ignored the rust problem and did absolutely nothing in the way of prevention.

EZDriver

 

People living in the warmer climes I dont think will need to worry so much, those more to the north which is colder and the use of road salts will (like here in the UK)

No matter how much waxoyl/dinitrol you try to pump in, this will not stop this!!!

It is a design issue... The problem you have is the outer and inner middle sill, this is a double skin which goes from the join line you can see on the sill from about half way along you door. The sills are very close together and if you remove the grommets you can see and pump in as much as you can you are ONLY covering the middle sill and inner sill, NOT the middle to outer sill as there is no way the treatment can get in there.
The water gets in via the join around the inner wheel arch to the wing/fender, these parts are not welded together but are bonded, what happens is the bonding seperates from the wing and allows water to ingress between the sills plus other "stuff", in the above case which is worst case scenario, sand!





The biggest issue is you can not buy repair sections, you have to make everything yourself, when I remade the inner sill I drilled holes in it to allow waxoyl and the like to penetrate through, I also painted everything with weld through primer to help it along.




To prevent this from happening, check the seal of the wing to the inner arch, dig it out and renew it if you have to, where the bottom of the arch joins the sill fill it up with sealant so water can not sit in there. A good tell tale sign, if you have anything that looks like the pic below you maybe already too late!!



Even though this is the stone guard which is sprayed on to the sill and does not have much to do with the inner sill, in my experience if you have this your sills are on the way out, if the stone guard has started to bubble this is what you will find underneath it

 

This being a problem for owners living in the Northern areas with salt on the roads is of course true. Salt is really bad and a crime that they use it. I live in the southern area and my 2000 XK8 looks great underneath. At least what I can see. Still I am considering spraying a spray called LPS III. The Boeing Company uses this in the wheel wells of the new airplanes they build as a preventative measure. It is also heavily used in the boat business especially in salt water. Works great. I've used it and had great luck on my boat in salt water.

EZDriver

 

Well this is depressing reading.

After Racer's dissertation I am not sure what to do in terms of preventative maintenance or how effective it would be but here is a note Lanquid sent me that may add to the options.

I’d love to be wrong about the UK cars, but my experience tells me otherwise. My first Jag (a 1967 S Type bought in Auckland at 7 years old, 3.4Litre 210HP, 23.5mpg on the open road, Tudor Webasco roof, Auto. Rego GK4185) literally started falling apart after I’d had it about 6 months. It was an indelible lesson. You can easily fix mechanicals, bodies are a different kettle of fish. I’d suggest that you get under yours with a high pressure cleaner while wearing a wet suit & goggles, and clean the hell out of every corner you can see and any others that you cannot. When dry use a magnifying glass to inspect every square inch of the car – twice!! Then spray the underside with phosphoric acid (used by steel boat builders to convert the surface rust to a rust resistant oxide). When that dries (usually about 24 hours, turns any surface rust black), get the underside coated with something like ‘Tectyl’ self healing protective coating. About 6mm thick, waxing sort of ‘gunk’ which forms a skin, and if a stone does penetrate it, it self heals by closing up and re-skinning itself. Otherwise, sell the car just before the rust starts to show!!

Is any one doing undercoating as a business in the UK?

Is it any good?

Same questions for France and Switzerland.

cheers,

jj

 

There are things you can do but it will compromise the look slightly or you will have to fit side sill covers...

Drill holes into the outer sill and pump it full of wayoyl that has been well heater so it is very runny, of course you then need to cover the holes for future injecting, either with an unsightly grommet which you could color code to your XK or like I said fit the side sill covers..... Maybe there will be a market to fit a more standard looking cover just for people who want to keep a stock looking car....

The front half of the sill section is only single skin and will not have these issues, once you have removed the inner wheel arch liner you will see a grommet in the end plate you can remove and pump it full.....

It is a messy job

I beleive I now know all the main areas that succumb to the dreaded metal moth and there are some a few people do not know about!

 

Racer;

May I be so bold as to ask what these salvage jobs cost at Paragon on average?

You may be able to predict on the basis of the year, '03-'04.

Always knew I was going to have come and see you and Avos one of these days.

cheers,

jj

 

Hi XK Racer Thanks for those disturbing photos.Would it be feasible to drill and grommet under the scuff plate in the door opening or would that weaken the sill?Where does the single skin end? Is it possible to thread a a thin tube into the sill?
Lots of questions Thanks again Al

 

£1000 to do both sides, like I said previously this was a worst case scenario, the car is a 96MY, has done over 120K miles and worked all its life, I must admit mechanically it is sound and was kicking 290bhp on the rolling road, which is pheonominal for an XK that has had such a life.


No in a simple answer, you can get right along from the front end of the sill cap, a grommet hides behind the wheel arch liner, there is another at the opposite end, take a look and you will see it. The inner and outer sills taper and merge at the join half way along, this means if you took both grommets out I guess if you looked down one end you would see light at the other?
If you also take a look at the inner sill I made, you can see towards the front it is together but at the back it sits inside the wheel arch, this is actually quite a thick piece of metal, when the outer sill is welded on you get probably about an 8mm (5/16) gap, which as said then tapers to nothing as it gets towards the middle, this is why it is difficult to get any form of rust prevention in there.

 

It's a disgrace that Jags still rust like this.
My XJ8 has had a salt free life and the body around the windows has rust through. The rear subframe has rust internally. Held at bay by a marine winterizing fluid (Corrosion X)
The lack of development still shows up.
I hope that the later models are better sorted.
I suspect that the present XK8 will still rust like this.

 

looking at xkracers pictures scares the s**ts out of me

 

jj,

Something else I thought of which is also worth while. Fishoil. My first car ever was a 1956 Hudson 'Rambler', which also had bad 'rust moth' in the floor panels. This was in my early airforce days, which was fortunate in that I had (illicit) access to the aircraft paint & panel section on the base. I could push my finger through most of the front floor. I cut the whole lot out, stripped out the inside of the car, and painted every inch of metal I could find with fishoil (I didn't know about phosphoric acid back then - I was only 19). I then beat a sheet of Duralium to shape and fitted that as the new front floor.

I then parked the outside car with the doors open, and left it for a week. After that I grabbed a can of scented flyspray (all I could find back then to try to kill the smell!!) You can now buy de-odourised fish oil, and in spray cans yet: it still smells a bit, but the smell also fades much more quickly.

Fishoil penetrates about 10 thou into the surface of bare metal, and does do a good job of preventing the 'breeding' of 'rust moth'. It would also do the same through the phosphoric treated surface, since it is still porous. Some of the observations about drilling access holes and squirting the insides are very damn good ideas also. I'd still use phosphoric first, and follow up with a coat of Tectyl or similar as a finishing coat. There is no guarantee that you will not have some rust poke its ugly face out somewhere sometime, but you can at least substantially reduce the chances.

As a point of interest. Volvo 2 series cars used to be the longest lifed vehicles on the Continent, with an average life of 18.5 years. Volvo used to galvanise the entire body before painting. I don't think that they do that anymore. Any Marque which is driven on 'salted' roads, or lives in a salt atmosphere of any kind, is going to suffer from rust corrosion. If you keep chlorine for your pool in the same garage as your car, you will induce rust in that car in due course (I once had to throw away a 3 year old bicycle that was stored in the same shed as the pool chemicals). Some are simply more resistant than others. We used to joke in NZ that if your new Ford didn't have rust in it, you should take it back while still under warranty. Now, who was it that owned Jaguar?

Oops!

Languid