Hi Folks,

Have completed the conversion of my '68 S2 2+2 automatic to a manual using an XJ6 synchro O/D box. Champagne in the fridge, wife putting her coat on :-)...
My jubilation was a tad early...

Upon first ignition the starter motor made a grinding noise and after 2 or 3 short tries I called a halt to the effort. The engine turned over during the crank (I could see the alternator turning).

Took out the starter motor for inspection (bit worn but no drama), wired it up on the bench - all fine, both forward solenoid motion and motor spinning ok.
Inspected the replacement flywheel teeth - some definite signs of grinding at the front of the teeth... which leads me to conclude (perhaps prematurely) that the starter did not fully engage.

Here is what I have on the car;
- XJ6 O/D gearbox
- Bellhousing that came with the gearbox (assume the B/H and G/B were a pair, but cannot be 100% sure). The bellhousing fits seamlessly to the engine.
- 133 teeth 4.2 Flywheel
- Starter is from the original automatic set-up #26152 (which according to SNG is now superseded by C27178).
- I used distance plate C22488 (which was already on my original auto set-up)

My theories are:
- The B/H from an XJ6 does not work with location of the oroginal E-type starter motor - but have not found anything on the forums on this issue.
- The B/H is from a different Jag alltogether
- I did NOT have the 2 little spigot bushes C22489 (they go in the holes of the distance plate) on my original automatic set-up and hence have not used them now. Measuring and studying the data leds me to believe these will at most make 0.5-1.0mm difference.
- The wear in the starter requires a replacement
- Are there variations of the 133 teeth flywheel?

So - HELP......!!! My worst case scenario is taking the whole engine and G/B out of the car again and start from scratch - ANY IDEAS FOR DIAGNOSIS OR REMEDIATION much appreciated...

Thanks guys...

Stephan.

 

No answer but a suggestion:

For the starter to engage properly, teeth mating with the flywheel, the critical issue for the bellhousing is that it mates with the ENGINE, not the transmission, since the flywheel is part of the engine. If the dimensions of the bellhousing place the starter gears too far (or close) to the flywheel, what you experienced can happen.

If you still have your original bellhousing perhaps you can measure the 2 - paying attention to the distance of the mounting position of the starter motor in relation to the backplane of the engine.

 

So - HELP......!!! My worst case scenario is taking the whole engine and G/B out of the car again and start from scratch - ANY IDEAS FOR DIAGNOSIS OR REMEDIATION much appreciated...

Thanks guys...

Stephan.

The Bell housing, Flywheel and Starter are a match set from your donor XJ6, I think If you install a stater that matches the XJ6 manual transmission car, you will be fine.
If you have to buy a new starter, you may want to get the new after market gear reduction starter that is direct replacement for OEM Manual Starter.

Rgds
David

 

Thanks for your replies. This conundrum has been going round in my head.

looking at my measurements, drawings and pictures I am convinced this problem is about (fractions of) mm’s in the radial plane. As such I can think of 2 remedies:

1. Buy a replacement (uprated) starter for the XJ6.
2. Drilling out one of the mounting holes of the current starter motor to allow for fine adjustment radially. Concerned about the amount of torque though... but it would prove a point...

When talking axial distance; do you know whether the distance between flywheel face and engine backplate are the same for XJ6 and E ?

SNG Barrett (they love me) coincidentally do 2 uprated starters with the same part number, only the suffix is different; one for the E and the other for the XJ6.

keep the thoughts coming, much appreciated.

enclosed 2 pics.

Cheers, Stephan

 

Stephan,

When installing the XJ6 starter, check the XJ6 IPC (SNG can probably advise), you may or may not need the Starter Shim that was there for your XKE automatic Bell housing, Flex-plate and starter. From memory there is a difference to the face of the teeth between a manual flywheel and the teeth of the Automatic flex-plate.... ie. a shim needed for starter positioning on automatic setup.

Rgds
David

 

Hi David,
Thanks for your reply.
Just to make sure I understand you properly:

- What do you mean by the XJ6 IPC ? Not familiar with this abbreviation.
- I have not seen any reference to a starter shim anywhere (part number?). You are not talking about C22488 correct? On my original automatic setup I had the bellhousing, the distance plate (C22488), the 2 spigot bushes (C22489) and the starter motor as shown in picture 2 (with C22488) above. In picture 1 is the current (XJ6??) bellhousing, which does not allo for the spigot bushes to be used.

Thanks in advance for your clarification.

Stephan

 

Hi CzechJag68,
The first thing I would check is the starter drive for the number of teeth on them. There could be a difference in the # of teeth between the XJ6 flywheel and the E-type auto flex plate.Ttherefore the starter drives would be different and cause a meshing issue.

Cheers,
Bob

 

Will 2nd David84XJ6's recommendation about gear reduction starter.

My car is a different animal (v12), but I think the example is relevant. OEM starter ALWAYS struggled to get the engine turning, with a fresh battery or not. It just struggled. Was that way from the beginning (I'm original owner)

In restoring the thing swapped out auto slushbox to 5-speed, went with Fidanza lightweight flywheel ... AND A GEAR REDUCTION STARTER.

Now, even with a low battery the engine turns over like a breeze. These things are the bomb!

 

IPC.... Illustrated Parts Catalog I was think of this spacer as a shim

I found this on Jagbits web-site: SPACER FOR STARTER MOTOR FITS 1969-1987 XJ6 4.2 LITER ENGINES. (C22488).... not sure if this is for Automatic XJ6 or Manual XJ6 or both.

Rgds
David

 

OK, Thanks for your replies. I have the C22488 already.

I have an open question with SNGB to tell me exactly what's different between the 2 gear reduction starters they have (USM003/1 for XJ6 and USM003/1E for E-type). Will report back what they say.