Hi guys with the later calls, ran across this today and thought I would relay:

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1C18c8BRdY/

"Fuse 15 important This is an important message for anybody removing fuse 15 on a later model Jaguar. We've just had our 4th car in in the last few weeks with a check engine lamp illuminated, caused by an exhaust gas solenoid valve failure. I know it sounds great to pull fuse 15, but on a car fitted with PPF, when the fuse is removed regeneration of the PPF cannot occur, instead the solenoid valve is stuck in an endless loop of trying to close the valves and perform a regeneration, when this fails to occur eventually the valve burns out and fails. Please guys if you have a later car do not remove fuse 15 to make the exhaust louder and for those thinking it's a great thing to advise other people to do this please consider this is an expensive repair as a direct result of removing moving fuse 15, please consider the advice you are giving without first confirming if the car in question has a PPF or OPF system fitted."

 

Just in case it's not obvious, OPF = Otto Particulate Filter and PPF = Petrol Particulate Filter.
Two different names for the exact same thing.
Otto so as to differentiate between a spark ignition engine vs a compression ignition (eg diesel) engine, seeing as the diesel version of a particulate filter has been common for decades and is known as a DPF.
And regeneration is when the PPF/OPF/DPF is cleaned out by burning off the built up particulates (tiny specks of carbon otherwise known as soot).

 

Great advice, I haven’t seen that before. Do we know roughly when the PPF started showing up in F-types? It gets asked a lot, I don’t recall if we came up with a definitive answer. I’m glad mine doesn’t have one! My valves are so squeaky I often run with F43 defeated.

 

Wow. Good to know, thanks!

 

Thanks also for this. I was sitting there scratching my head thinking what the hell does my PPF (Paint Protection Film) have to do with this! lol

 

I believe Petrol Particulate Filters were first installed in 2019 models.

 

Interesting for sure. Not fully sure what to make of it. Definitely need to understand it a bit more, what the full implications are, etc…

Problem I have is that my enjoyment of the car is directly tied to whether or not fuse 15 is pulled. It is so dramatically improved with the fuse out (not physically in my case on account of having the Claws Out mode stuff setup).

Definitely want to understand it more, but I don’t see not having the improved exhaust noises being an option for me at the end of the day. An expensive bill will perhaps be the cost of doing business? Not sure.

Is there a sense of how many Km/miles we’re talking here before failure?

Would doing the occasional driving without pulling the fuse be enough to mitigate (i.e only do it on occasion)?

Would there be a way to just get the dash light to go out without actually doing anything about it? Because I can’t say I really care all that much about a failed OPF/PPF that I probably never wanted in the first place if in reality it is just throwing a code and a light letting me know I’m not optimal for the environment ;-o

These are some of the initial surface questions that are popping into my mind without knowing a whole lot about it.

 

I think going for a blast with the fuse in once in a while to encourage the filter to regenerate might be a good preventative measure. I did think about doing it to excercise the active valves but it's been a year now since the fuse came out and the car sounds so much better (no PPF or GPF) I just carried on and now I worry the valves might shut and not open again 😅 so the fuse will continue to sit comfortably in the centre console.

 

I would think occasionally pulling it and replacing should be fine, but I l'm not an expert (I have a 2015R). Asked Paul Busby what he thinks on the FB thread and will report back if he replies.

 

For my 2019.5 Ftype R I bought a valveless Exhaust from Velocity AP. Mine is still vacuum actuated so you just tie those off. Not cheap...but I don't like leaving fuses out!

 

HA! Same! I happen to be the IT director for one of the top 2 PPF manufacturers globally and I see this every day all day in acronyms all around and I was thinking surely it can't mean that because a fuse causing the PPF to be unable to regenerate is some top secret technology I hadn't seen yet! Side note, awesome heads up. Maybe I am a bit crotchety at my 46 year old self, but I have more taken to the idea that "it's gotta be there for a reason" (Even if it is a really really stupid reason), so pulling it (anything) off will have consequences of some sort. Otherwise, it wouldn't be there. But I am also a pretty hardcore Libertarian, so do whatever you like to your own vehicles, I say! (But also take advice from others who have some hard won knowledge)

Mike

 

Right, but I guess the difference is your ECU is not monitoring for the presence of a PPF and these newer cars like I have are, right?

 

For context, who is this person saying this? Someone working at a Jag dealer? An independent? A tuner shop?

Not to dismiss what is being said, just curious.

I always thought that fuse 15 only powered the opening and closing of the valves at the back of the exhaust, so I guess the suggestion is it is also powering some other valve(s) related to this PPF/OPF business? Is that what one is supposed to get from this? Just wanna be clear here,

 

I’m starting to get the impression that this “exhaust gas solenoid valve” is typically located in the engine bay in most cars. If the answer was having to just replace that engine bay accessible valve part when it failed, and that was the only implication, then I suppose I could live with that to have my fuse 15 enjoyment…Even better if it was DIY easy to do…

Problem is, my knowledge of exhaust systems is not deep enough to know if the potential implications are that simple. He talks about the exhaust gas solenoid valve burning out, but he also talks about the PPF/OPF not being able to “regenerate”. So not sure what the implications might be for that etc, if any…

 

See post # 2 for a brief explanation of regeneration.
Put very simply a pair of sensors measure pre-DPF and post-DPF exhaust gas flow and once the difference in the measurements reaches a threshold an automatic regeneration is invoked.
To effect a regeneration the ECU commands the fuel injectors to inject extra fuel on the exhaust stroke and that fuel is burnt at very high temperature inside the DPF, a bit like F-Type pops and bangs. This burns off nearly all of the soot that has been collected in the DPF blowing out a heap of the eeeevil CO2 and leaving behind a residue of ash which eventually needs to be manually cleaned out. But it takes many years and many miles for a DPF to become full of ash, way past the warranty date.
I know that's how it works on diesel DPFs so I assume it works the same or at least similar on PPFs/OPFs.
If it does work the same way then my guess is that on a petrol/gas car with a PPF/OPF a regeneration doesn't happen all that often, maybe once every 5,000 miles or so, seeing as a petrol/gas engine produces a LOT less particulates/soot than a diesel engine.
I know a little bit about diesel DPFs seeing as I had a (used) diesel 2010 XFS for a couple of years and it had DPF issues from the get go, which I solved after lots of research.
The XFS used to invoke an automatic DPF regeneration fairly often, at least once every 500 miles or so, but sometimes I had to coax it into running a regeneration.
If a DPF can't regenerate then the DPF becomes badly clogged fairly quickly and it takes some special treatment or even a manual clean to unclog it and maybe this could happen to a PPF/OPF although I have never read or heard of this happening.

 

Paul works at Viezu tuning along with Simon who responded to my follow up:

When does the cleaning cycle kick in? For the 2019+ fellows that want more sound, feasible to pull the fuse over a short period and then replace after driving?

Brad Franklin it's also affects the functionality of the solenoid, it will be operating under a wide range of engine load conditions, so even removing the fuse for short periods of time can adversely effect the the actual solenoid. As Paul Busby has mentioned, removing the fuse causes issues with the solenoid and any amount of driving with it unplugged could cause component damage or ultimately failure.

So it really has to do with overworking the solenoid and damaging it. No idea what is involved with replacing it, I just know there's been a lot of discussion on fuse 15 here and wanted to relay this.

 

Fantastic info man, thanks. So, how did you “coax” it into doing a regeneration cycle exactly? I suppose that could be a useful aspect for this current conversation.

Let’s suppose for sake of conversation here that you are right, and these cars only try to run a regeneration every 5000 miles or so. If that was the case then presumedly this solenoid valve trying to be closed for that purpose would only be in its “failing to close loop” at the moment it’s calling for a regeneration (i.e.: Not all the time in between regenerations).

So to me, as long as one had a sense of how often it might be doing regenerations, and/or knew of a reliable way to invoke a regeneration to occur on demand sorta thing, well, then perhaps one could just put fuse 15 back in (or disable Claws Out Mode or whatever) and make sure a regeneration is done…

And then enjoy their fuse 15 life again until they consciously ensure a regeneration can run at a later appropriate time etc..If this was doable in a practical sense then I could see this being pretty manageable for a lower mile summer-only use case like mine…Perhaps trying and make sure a regeneration can run when it comes out of winter storage, midway through the summer, and just before putting it to bed for the winter…this sorta thing…

This is what your info and other info has me wondering/thinking at this point? No sure.

 

Where is the "exhaust gas solenoid valve" located in the system?

If it's the same values in the rear silencer, then with the fuse removed, how is there any power going to it to burn it out?

Defintely need to understand it a little more before considering.

 

Hmmm, yeah, that’s a great point. You would think it just couldn’t close because of lack of power. Not good for the regeneration process that cannot happen as a result, but as you are suggesting, how would it cause failure of repeated close attempts on the solenoid if there is no power to it?!?

confused

 

Thanks for clarifying man about who said this stuff.

Scz4’s comment is a good one I think, and certainly has me confused in trying to resolve in my brain the suggested adverse effects on the solenoid.

Anyway, I’m sure over time discussion will make things clearer.