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1966 s type headliner

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Old 01-15-2018, 08:26 PM
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Default 1966 s type headliner

can anyone tell me how the headliner is installed? the window tops and the windshield frames i can see are screwed into the body shell,. what's holding the roof shell to the roof and is it a shell like later model xjs and xj6/12s? will it come out in one piece if removed with care. seems to be glued to the roof metal. (some portions of the material have separated from the shell and the entire material portion is pretty shot). what is this shell made from?



bubbles in material are separated from the shell. just noticed from photo the bow lines that i'd missed while in car. so is the headliner just so crispy and hard that i mistook it for a shell?
 

Last edited by jagstuart; 01-15-2018 at 11:05 PM.
  #2  
Old 01-16-2018, 02:03 AM
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It's not glued to the roof, it is glued around the edges though. The headliner is woolcloth and is held in by metal cants which slide into loops sewn in the back of the headliner and spring into metal holders along the gutter line, you can make out the stitch lines on the photo.

Do a search on the forum, someone did a detailed description of the installation.
 
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:58 PM
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This one is a bit of a puzzle. The photo shows clear markings where one would expect to find the listing stick loops, but there don't seem to be any seams in the headlining material itself where the stitching would be, unless 'jagstuart' can tell us more. I was always under the impression that the S-type headlinings didn't use listing sticks to make the roof profile. I'll have a look in my book on the saloons by Paul Skilleter.
 
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:19 PM
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Fraser could well be right, I have to say I assumed they were the same as the Mk2 !
 
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:20 PM
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The S-Type headlining is glued to a back board which in turn is glues to the roof, unlike the MK2 there are no metal sticks holding it up (there weren't in the my 1966 S-Type I restored 10 years ago anyway).
 
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Homersimpson View Post
The S-Type headlining is glued to a back board which in turn is glues to the roof, unlike the MK2 there are no metal sticks holding it up (there weren't in the my 1966 S-Type I restored 10 years ago anyway).
Thanks for that. In Paul Skilleter's book on the saloons he is not completely correct when he says the S-type headlining material was glued to the roof, it is glued to a backing board that is then glued to the roof.
 
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:30 PM
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my 1965 S type has some reversed bow loops which force it upwards to the roof.

It is also collapsing and I can push the bows upwards and hear a not very pleasant noise.

I don't like this arrangement, I want a fiberglass board like my XJ-6 which was a piece of cake to redo the headliner.

If anyone knows of a way to get away from these bows, please let me know. Getting the material is easy, I just did the entire headliner in my 1997 Ford Aerostar extended body, largest headliner I've ever seen, so I am now an expert at this stuff, but the Aerostar also has a fiberglass "form" onto which the fabric is glued to with 3M Headliner spray.
 
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:03 PM
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like jose my experience is limited to the xj and xjs, both of which have shells. getting the backing board off the roof in one piece, if it is indeed glued, seems like a nightmare. the bow lines in the material are a mystery. but i can say that tapping on the roof exterior results in a very tactile rap on the interior headliner. don't think there's any air space there. so "homer S" did you remove the backing board in one piece or did you follow another plan? i've done this procedure in three cars with good success: stripped out any bonding material, insulation etc from the bare roof metal. cut a matching piece of felt carpet pad and hit it with my propane torch to create a good surface for bonding. upholstery glued my headliner material to that and glued the whole thing to the bare metal roof with contractors duty liquid nails (the fast adhesive kind) and braced it against roof until dry with poles and sheets of 1/4 plywood. here's a pic from my mgbgt.


 

Last edited by jagstuart; 01-17-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:32 AM
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I can imagine the amount of crushed particles and dust that are going to fall off when the whole enchilada is pullled.

I will need to remove the seats, cover and mask the entire dash and rear parcel shelf, the doors, and put a painter's floor cover over the carpeting, B posts, everything, before pulling it.

I will try to find a shell or "form", then cover it with headlining fabric. I'm not going back to the "bow" thing.
 
  #10  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:35 AM
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For what it is worth, the "bows" are called "listing wires" -very common on early cars. In fact in my previous working life, for a time I supervised a trim shop at Ford Halewood, and we made the headlinings for the Transit van there.
 
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:09 PM
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I'm going to do away with those listing wires, not a do-it-yourself job.
 
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:02 PM
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Default listing wires and swarf

Originally Posted by littlelic69 View Post
For what it is worth, the "bows" are called "listing wires" -very common on early cars. In fact in my previous working life, for a time I supervised a trim shop at Ford Halewood, and we made the headlinings for the Transit van there.
you got to love the english language.
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:29 PM
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Up to mid 1966 when the shaped board was introduced the centre portion of an S Type headliner was indeed glued directly to the dome. A real PIA. It also seems that all CKD cars had it glued to the dome.

Dome has anti-drumming bituminous panels glued to it. Then foam backed Union Cloth (lamb's wool) is glued directly to that.


My car direct to dome





Example








Post mid 1966 glass fibre shaped board (don't worry ~ we are all still learning ~ I know my '65 well) ~ board had foam backed Union Cloth glued to it.



 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-04-2018 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:13 PM
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what are anti-drumming bitumenous whatevers?
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:18 PM
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by the way, this S type listing wires versus flat board headliner discussion is happening at the International S type Register Forum right now too.

One thing is clear: the flat board will not come out through a rear door as it does in an XJ-6. The experts say you have to remove the front glass and trim. Not me, I am not doing that.

I am looking for a substrate base that can be slid through a door.



 
  #16  
Old 12-04-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jose View Post
what are anti-drumming bitumenous whatevers?
They are the squares of black underseal type stuff that are stuck to the roof Jose
 
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TilleyJon View Post
They are the squares of black underseal type stuff that are stuck to the roof Jose
Same stuff as is bonded to the floor under the underfelt. Had mine blasted off & I replaced with Dynamat after checking for rust & undercoating & painting. I left the stuff on my dome because it was perfect.

We just gave it a light block sand to ensure no protruding seams under Jonathan Skinner's guidance. He has done many, many S Type liners. It's the one part of his total interior kits that many trimmers & DIY'ers don't like doing so they get him to do the headlining.

My trim guy is very good & after a brief chat with Skinner got the gluing job, working from the centre out, spot on.
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-04-2018 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:06 PM
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The lines one can see in this picture are the compromised joints in the anti drumming material that is bonded to the dome.




 
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:03 AM
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TilleyJon and Glyn,
thanks, now I know what it is.

maybe I am confusing those lines with listing wires or bows?

regardless, the headliner needs to come off, it is shot and moldy. That is why I do not like the wool fabric. I prefer the material used in the 1980s XJ-6.

As for originality I am not into judging or museum pieces, for me it's a matter of a classic car with modern conveniences like electric door mirrors, headrests, center top mounted stop lamps, modern radio, smaller steering wheel, etc.





.
 

Last edited by Jose; 12-05-2018 at 08:08 AM.
  #20  
Old 12-05-2018, 09:30 AM
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I was trying to build a concours car so I've restricted mods to those that can't be seen like Pertronix pointless ignition, stainless lined brake & clutch components & tropical radiators etc. (A Tropical radiator by Silverton was always an option on SA cars anyway.) My wing mirrors that I have not fitted yet are perfect copies & are even stamped "LUCAS Made In England."

Jose ~ it's your car and you must do exactly as you prefer. The roof lining has lasted well over 50 years so it owes you nothing. As you don't want to take a window out I suggest you just glue a foam backed headliner to the dome. You can use Dynamat first if you want to. Whatever material you select has to be capable of stretching sufficiently to go over the front shaping panel across the top of the windscreen, do the side rolls, cover the C pillar proud surround & the fillet piece between the rear parcel shelf & the base of the rear screen.

Union Cloth was the traditional headlining used by Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar & many of the British manufacturers & coachbuilders.
 

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