Hello folks -

So in the quest to decide if I will keep or sell my '61 MK2, I'm trying to find some solutions to the main restoration obstacles. This one is not particularly "critical" but it sure is frustrating....the column shift is on the wrong side.

To be clear..... As I sit in the driver's seat, the gear shift is in the left hand, and the indicator stalk, to the right. Now I've looked at the steering column and under-dash shift linkage, and its definitely supposed to be that way, yet I can find no evidence that the column was ever changed or modified. I'm reasonably sure I could move the indicator switch to the other side, but I doubt the same can be said for the gear shift. SO....I was thinking about installing a nice floor shift - something very similar to the look and position of a manual, but I wondered if there are any stock floor shifts for the DG250? Does anyone know if the DG250 was ever used with a floor shift? I'm sure I could find a way to make a floor shift work, but most of them expect the GM shift pattern / gate, rather than that of the DG250.

Thanks.
Allan.

 

The early autos have gears on the left and indicators on the right. Later cars are the other way around, if you really want to swap it just find s later car being broken and swap the bits.

To be honest though you get used to it fairly quickly and being an early car it would be a shame to alter the original features.

 

What makes the position of the column-mounted shift lever a restoration obstacle ? Why is being on the left side wrong ?
Anyway, if you look on the SNG Barratt website you can bring up the parts drawing for your chassis number. There are three drawings for the hand control, one with the lever on the left, and two with it on the right. You car is an early Mark 2, so I suspect the lever being on the left is correct. There seems to be no difference whether the cars are left or right-hand drive.

 

Wrong from the perspective that it "differs" from anything else and until now I was not sure it really was supposed to be that way. A restoration obstacle only because A) I really don't like it that way, so it needs to be considered before I invest in a restoration effort, and more importantly, B) I was concerned that somebody "put" it that way, meaning that there may be other changes, mods and an underlying cause that I've yet to discover. Its not really an obstacle, more like something I want to have clear line of sight on before I commit to a complete overhaul....would be a shame to put in the work and money, and end up being irritated when I shift into reverse, while attempting to signal left. I have several older cars with a column shift and so I get very used to things working a certain way.

Its always annoyed me that the shifter is reversed from "standard" and so I wanted to understand my options, including leaving it exactly as is, or relocating to the floor in the manner and trim of a manual.

 

I understand your problem, now you have explained it. At one time the indicator controls on British cars were on the "wrong side", my 1977 MG Midget has it on the right, not the left. Jaguar added the overdrive or autotransmission stalks and I suppose that's why the went on the left. Later on they were swapped but what year this was I don't know.
YOu could have a look at the XJ6 autotransmission control mounted on the floor. This was always a three-speed gearbox right til the end.

 

It is not very hard to take the steering column mechanism to the other side of the car.
I changed it from the right side to the left side, and could use all the same hardware and cable.
Reroute the cable and put the lever under the dash to the other side.

Regards,
Peter Jan

 

the Detroit Gear DG250 transmission is a 3-speed automatic, a somewhat reliable transmission, used since 1955 in American cars starting with Studebakers.

converting to a center console or "floor" shifter cannot be impossible, the question is: do you have the room inder the center console to fit an automatic shifter assembly? Or will you have to modify the transmission tunnel ? Not an easy job I think, though I think the tunnel has a removable blanking plate for manual transmission shifters.

 

The manual and automatic tunnels are totally different i'm afraid, an automatic car has a larger more rounded tunnel which has removable access plates on the sides and a few bungs on the top to check oil level etc. The manual tunnels have a large hole in the top onto which a seperate piece is fixed to cover the top of the gearbox.

 

Homer, I suspected the tunnels would be different, i am familiar with the side panels as my '65 S type has them.

here's pictures of a Series 2 XJ 3-speed automatic transmission shifter assembly as used with the BW65 and BW66 transmissions in all 6 cylinder XJ up to 1987:

 

You could probably adapt that to fit but to be honest I don't see the point, if it were a manual transmission then moving the stick to a more conventional position might have a benefit but on an auto you just stick it in drive and off you go.

If the OP doesn't like them being reveresed just swap the column and mechanism for one out of a later car, personally I would leave it as is as the shifter being the other way around is a nice feature that defines an early car and you soon get used to it.

 

an even earlier MK-2 part design was the aluminium nacelle or "switch cover".

 

Possibly but if these were ever fitted to early cars by the factory there would be a lot more of them about, it may have been a prototype part or someone has cast it themselves as a project. I've certainly never seen another one or found any other reference to it.

As you know my MK2 is the 1st 3.8 ever built and it has a bakerlite steering column cowl which is almost certainly original as it is correct for the indicators and gears being in the reverse orientation.

 

I would never use that tunnel lever, its looks out of place, ( and looks horrible to me)
Also the sequence and spacing is wrong, a dg250 has PNDLR.
There is enough room under the dash, I have changed from RHD to LHD, and it was quite easy.
Only the wiring was some work, but it all fitted, there was just one wire to short. ( left hand direction wire )

Regards,
Peter Jan

 

OR, you can fit a BW66 transmission to replace the DG250, but you would lose the 2nd gear Hold feature if your car has it.

50 ways to skin a cat.

 

Last year I replaced the Old DG250 for a T700-R4 using a adaptor kit from http://www.johnscars.com/mark/markqb.html
4-speed with overdrive and direct drive on 4, but still retained the steering shift ( adaption included in the Kit )

Regards,
Peter Jan

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

The conversion to a floor-shift is 100% do-able, and may not even be that hard if prior experience is any guide. My only reason for asking about a DG250 shifter specifically is that A) It would have the correct shift gate and B) It would likely be a "period" piece - if it existed.

Since it doesn't though, and assuming I do the swap at all, I'll very likely try use a cable-operated Lokar shifter, as with the picture below (you'll need to just imagine a stock console) The advantage is that if done properly, the interior will simply look like a standard interior, with a manual. Closer inspection will reveal it to be an automatic obviously, and to my knowledge Lokar does not make a shift-gate that will match, but I expect there is some adjustment in the shift positions and a lot of flexibility in mounting solutions when using a cable - so its a potential solution. Several other classic American cars also used the PNDLR gate and so another option would be to marry the shift gate linkages (hidden by the console) to a standard jaguar shift handle, and assuming space or a cable link to the transmission, voila.

Still - I'll probably just leave it alone, lol.

 

I may want to pick your brain later Peter. The DG250 seems to work ok, a little slow to shift from a hard stop back to first, but I think that has to do with low and incorrect fluid, plus I think the parking pawl is damaged because I'm not sure its always engaging, but the pawl is replaceable and a proper fill of proper fluid may have the DG250 operating normally, so I'll keep it if I can - However, if it gives me trouble, I'll go for the 700R4. I've installed a few, and in fact my '65 Mk2 has one also, but it also has a Chevy motor. So If I end up going this route, I may have some questions for you. Biggest obstacle as a DIY job is getting the DG250 transmission dropped (and probably getting the 700r4 engaged) - I'm not going to want to remove the engine again.

 

You can install a t700R4 with the engine in place, I have done it that way.
You need to cut a hole in the tunnel. ( but did that 15 Years ago to replace a defect torq converter of the DG250 )

adaptorPlace installed

I still have a DG250 in my XK140FHC.

Regards,
Peter Jan

 

Wow. John's Cars website seems sure it can be done in 15 hours, and the only modification is a slight dent in the tunnel for the angle speedo drive. Do you think this would have been possible if your tunnel had been intact?

 

Took me longer than 15 Hours, more about 30. But I took it easy.
With the tunnel intact looks difficult to me, How do you expect to reach the upper bolts of the bell housing?
I did not use the angle drive, instead I made 2 cm hole to the side of the tunnel using a grommet, and the speedo cable is going under the floormats to the dash.

Regards,
Peter Jan