Does the shifter on the trans look right? It will only shift into reverse and first, no second, third or fourth. I removed the 3-4 shift sleeve and it really stuck on the hub, so I sanded lightly with emery paper now shifts when I hold the sleeve and hub in my hands but assemble trans and still cant get shifter to slide into 2-3 or 4th gears. All the info I find show a beefier shifter like the one in the diagram in the first reply???

 

All the info I find show a beefier shifter like the one in this diagram???

 

From the scribes such as Taylor the shift mechanism was changed from early to later cars.

The Mk1 and the Press:

"Early 2.4's gear lever was criticized as unnatural to use." ~ The Motor.

"The gear lever was ‘not ideally shaped or placed for the average driver’." ~ The Autocar

In later commentary on the 3.4 they say that "the Moss manual gearboxes remained unchanged between 1957 and 1959, although the selector mechanism was changed for a remote type,"

It would seem you have the early shifter. You might have a damaged selector fork but more likely a jammed up/maladjusted detent spring/ball on one of the shafts if the change lever is engaging the gate correctly.


Final remote shifter.

 

Early Mk1 Moss GB & gear change lever.

 

Glyn, Could you please give me an opinion on my transmission situation? We have a trans stamped "GB 243" on the upper edge . When we got it the shifter was not bolted onto the trans. When I bolted it down I could only shift into reverse and first.
So I looked at the shifter and all the detents catch when they should, and release when they should. So I removed the 3rd and high gear shift sleeve with the hub, and it was very difficult to slide the syncronising sleeve over the hub, they were pretty much locked.
So then I disassembled the trans and removed the high synchronizer. Then I used some fine emery paper inside the sleeve and hub, and after just a little cleaning up they worked smooth, so I reloaded the springs and ***** and put trans back together. So I know the syncro sleeve moves with normal effort, but still the shifter won't move into 3rd or high.
It seems like we have a shifter that just can't shift as we need it to. We have what I think is the early shifter (ball socket) type, and I'm hoping the remote type will have more leverage to move the synchronizer into gear.??
Any help is much appreciated.
Thank You
Steve

 

These old Moss boxes have awful gates. You need to find out why the shifter wont move the third/forth shift rod. Peter3442 has some grinding of the gate & lower shifter that he recommends ~ Give him a PM. I'm no Moss specialist. Was just able to respond to many of your questions. I know the Jaguar all synchro box very well. They have an adjustible cross detent ball, spring & rod that controls cross movement in the gate so you don't catch reverse going from 1st to 2nd. I have no manual of the early Moss box. I had to search for the old original diagram for you.

If it were me I would move to the remote shifter but then I presume you will have to cut your lever exit position on the tunnel/tunnel cover. It might even need a different GB top cover.

Are you even sure that the transmission cover & selector belong to that gearbox. From your photo you certainly have the old shifter. Do you have a Mk1/2.4 Service Manual?

Is anything impeding the shifter ball movement. Remember the bottom of the shifter is moving in the opposite direction of the top of the gearlever.

You can diagnose most situations with the right info.

 

I've PM'ed Peter to take a look.

 

Glyn, You bring up some good points, that is what we are wondering, if the shifter we have is made for the gearbox we have, because if I have the shifter off the gearbox I can shift to all gear positions crisply with no binding, and when I remove the "non syncro" (with out brass rings) synchronizer from the gearbox I can shift the syncro from neutral forward toward high, and from neutral rearward toward 3rd, it is crisp when shifting but smooth. So everything moves when separated but when I install the cover/shifter assembly it will only move into low and reverse. If I remove the shifter stick I still can not move into 2nd, 3rd, or high.

 

Thanks Glyn I did send a note to Peter3443 and hope he has some advise. Have a Great Day!

 

Something is wrong. These things are not complicated mechanisms. Do you know the history of this gearbox or is it a cobbled together Heinz 57 varieties?

 

Ah! I see we have Peter present! ~ Oops he has disappeared. Hope he is thinking about it.

 

I'll do my best to reply. My experience is mainly with the 'gate' of the remote shifter. From the pictures, it looks as though the mechanism in the remote and yours are the same from the selector finger down. What we think of as 'the gate' is the set of slots in the selectors attached to the striker rods (for first-second, it's actually the top of the fork), items 23, 26, 25 in Glyn's figure. If they are not aligned, you'll possibly not engage the selector finger (on the end of the stick) with the three-four selector (26). The problem with my box (I believe from new) was a badly shaped opening to (26) blocking the lever in neutral when shifting from second to third. You should be able to see the slots by removing the cover 54.

There are a set of *****, plungers and springs, items 42 to 45, that engage the striking rods. If they are stuck, they may lock the associated the striking rod. Items 32 in the picture are the interlock ***** between the striking rods. Wear can cause these not to line up and gunk can make them stick.

If the gearbox has been rebuilt and not re-assembled correctly, there are a lot more possibilities. Are the selector forks sitting correctly in the operating sleeves? I'm not sure if it's possible for them not to be, but if it is, you can certainly be locked out of third and fourth. When the lid assembly (item 33 and everything attached to it) is lowered onto the box, the selector mechanism and all the gears should be in neutral. Move the lever from side to side with the lid off and check it feels the same movement as it's lowered.

I think that it may be possible to put the third-fourth synchronising sleeve on the mainshaft back to front which would cause the same problems.

I'm afraid that getting into the gears themselves is going outside my experience and knowledge. There are a lot of possibilities of wear and incorrect assembly allowing excessive fore and aft movement that can prevent gear selection. I don't have the experience to tell you what to investigate. Here's a link with some ideas:

http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/...ox_reilly.html

 

I should add: when the cover 54 is lifted off and are looking at the slots in the selectors, it's good to remind yourself that everything is the opposite way around from motion of the gear knob. Third is left and down instead of up and right. I know that it's obvious, but when you're up to your neck in alligators, it's easy to forget.

I'll emphasise again that I'm no gearbox expert. I've learnt a little about what goes on inside the lid mainly by staring at it as the Jaguar manuals assume either that those parts never break or are so simple that they are easy to repair.

Good luck!

 

Thank you for responding to my PM Peter. What you say makes absolute sense. You are more a Moss man than I am. I know the all synch box well as it's what I rebuilt. Your Jag-lovers link is most interesting.

 

Peter and Glyn, I want to thank you for the input, it does help just knowing other people are thinking about this gearbox that is driving me nuts. I have been spending way to much time thinking about the shifter.
Since I last posted I have come to realize that the problem must be in the synchronising sleeve most likely that there is too much movement in the inner hub sleeve, or something with the synchronising sleeve detent *****. I'm thinking maybe the 2 detents that engage with the main shaft are pushing outward and not allowing the outer sleeve to move into gear basically locking the sleeve up??? I did just notice that the outer sleeve has 2 lower teeth so I'm going to try and assemble the outer sleeve to the inner with these 2 points aligned with the 2 inner locking detents. maybe there is hope. I appreciate the encouragement and advise.

 

I think if I was in the OP's shoes I would.

a) Seek out a used known working box (bearing in mind it is likely it is also worn)
b) Take his box to a Moss specialist & dump it on his desk
c) Ask him to confirm that all the right bits are present & explain the issue - I'm told both the casing & top cover are similarly marked. That does not mean someone has not bodged something in the past.
d) Leave it with said specialist & tell him to make it work properly while replacing bearings, seals etc.

If the manuals are as poor as the Jag-lovers article suggests and so many variants exist. What chance does a novice at Moss boxes stand, simple as they might appear on the face of things. The Jaguar designed full synchro box is at least easy going if you observe the manual as I did.

Alternative ~ continue to battle & pray it comes right with new found info.

 

Peter, I appreciate the help, and the link you sent me describes the exact problem I finally found. The article describes that if the 3rd and high syncro and ***** are not assembled in one specific sequence that you wont be able to shift. Bang the light bulb in my head lit up. In the article by Rob Reilly on Jag-Lovers toward the end of the article he starts a paragraph "The Mossbox went together, but not without incident" then he describes a shortfall in the Jaguar Manual that leaves out how to do this assembly step. But the article doesn't give the information on how to solve this mystery.

If anyone has ever heard of the solution it would get me out of a big bind figuratively and literally. Thanks again

 

There are a couple of Aussies on the forum, Bill Mac & Bob Hornby that have both been through a large number of Mk1's & their restoration. Hopefully one of them will contribute. I think one of them has done something like 11 cars.

 

Thanks Glyn I'm not giving up yet.