i have a 01' s-type and i have the P1587 :PCM to throttle actuator control module throttle command redundancy circuit malfunction, what does this mean? what should i check?

 

digi, I did a quick search for you and what I found is not good news. Check out this thread, bare in mind it was from 3 years ago. Most of the "members" haven't been around for a while. Look at response #9 specifically.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ght=code+P1587

 

so i need a throttle body, thanks.

 

Did this ever get resolved?

 

I see lots of people telling me what the codes (P1587 & P1576) mean but no fixes. I'm new to the Jag scene so I don't want to step on any toes.

 

Jag Genius there's a name I haven't seen in a long time.

Maybe you need to tell us what's happening with the car and don't forget your intro in the new members section.

 

+1 but also put in your car details!

 

His car is a 2001 SType. The P1587 is a PCM to TACM throttle command redundancy circuit malfunction and the P1576 is a APP (Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor) Sensor signal malfunction n – more than one signal failure.

Check the wiring to the throttle body and have it rebuilt or replaced. I would call ASI to see if they can rebuild it or find a used one.

Link to ASI http://www.autoecu.com/index.php?p=1

Link to codes http://jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/P20001.PDF

I cannot over emphasize the importance of using the Jaguar codes to identify what is going on with your Jaguar!

 

I know this is an old thread but just wanted to give a heads up...I just replaced the intake manifold gaskets and did the elbow repair that was giving me P0171/P0174...it was a long ardeous process because the elbow is waaay hard to get to....

Anyway once I got everything back together I got this dreaded P1587 code and I pretty much realized what I had done...

Theres a 2-lead wire that connects right next to the Pressure Relief Valve...this wire is part of the harness but it loops right around and over where the some of the hottest parts of the motor are and it goes along the bottom of the fuel supply manifold...when I changed out my gaskets I had to disconnect and sort of mangle this part of the harness in order to clean and get to the gasket areas...

This wire gets brittle and it looks like its possible to short it out, if this is the case you will get a P1587 code...

I got a very long needle nose pliers and re-positioned this wire also spraying all of my connectors with contact cleaner...

Code went away.

 

Useful to know for those with the earlier cars.

 

We ‘01 3.0’s need to stick together! Bonded in the common experience of replacing a 50¢ cost to make plastic elbow.

 

So maybe this is not the thread to ask this on...but...I am at my wits end (short trip for a half wit)...

I was getting the P0171/P0174 codes, replaced the intake manifold gaskets...still got codes...decided to replace LOWER plenum gaskets (also replaced the intake manifold vacuum gaskets)...after the repair I was able to spray starting fluid on the top/base/around the intake manifold and get no engine change (this was after the elbow change)...

So I take it for a ride I get P0420 as the ONLY code...get it a few times...(never got a mil though) clear it with my OBDII reader...

So every morning this last week (as I have been fighting this air leak) the only way to start the car is to remove the MAF housing and spray some starter fluid directly into the throttle body...generally starts up after a couple of tries...

Went through and checked all my connections, took out the MAF and gently cleaned it with spray ONLY...put it back together sprayed my connectors with contact cleaner...strted the car drove to my daughters (highway for about 12 miles) and hung out...decided to change the oil since they have a shaded garage and I am in Tucson...oil changed, car started right up...backed it down the driveway and onto the street so it would be level for my final oil check...turned car off...topped of oil...

Car refused to start.

Nothing...my wifi OBDII reader (EM327) showed my fuel pressure at 39.6 lbs...short term trims looked good...absolutely NO CODES...and ps I had the hard wired OBDII reader in the whole way over there and it had no codes...

Long story short my son in law came home and I was able to jump start the car immediately...

Got two codes right off the bat with the wifi obdii reader P01587/P0102...

This leads me to believe my battery is suspect...I've had the car for two years and got it with the existing battery...(oh by the way this week I was able to borrow a vehicle to jump start it and every time it seemed to start after a few tries)

The OBDII report shows 13.47 volts but I suspect that is the alternator...

What say ye???

I have replaced the 15 amp fuel pump fuses in the boot twice now in the last week and half...

Should I replace fuel pump or start with the battery...

Drove it home absolutely no codes at all...got out and disconnected the battery for overnite...will see what happens in the morning...

Advice, rebukes, praise?

 

Battery is a clear suspect.

You should never have to start it with fluid or the like so figure out what's wrong.

Trims are irrelevant until it's gone CL (closed loop) - commonly 30 secs or so after start and trims are not much use till it's warmed up fully (unless you're well into grasping what trims do and how).

 

+1 on that.

You mentioned the car started immediately with a jump start. What was the starter cranking speed during all the previous failed attempts? Was the starter speed normal (until the battery ran down), even if the engine didn’t actually run?

Also, when did the no-start problem begin? Out of the blue? After recent work?

At the very minimum, put the battery on a charger overnight. After running the battery down to the point of needing a jumpstart, the poor alternator is going to struggle to fully recharge it.

 

Thanks for the replies guys...here's what I did (this is two days of experiments)...

Day 1: I disconnected the battery over nite after driving home when I got it started...got up the next day checked the voltage on the battery, it had held at 12.34 overnite...watched my meter during the cold crank and it dropped to around 10v at one point but the car started right up...I pulled the negative cable off and ran an amp draw test to see if it was draining current...it was in the millivolt range...not really enough to be a concern. Reconnected battery drove like a dream all day.

Day 2 decided to leave the battery plugged in overnite...it registered 12.34 volts when I checked it last nite, before I started it I checked and it was down to 12.06 volts...car started but it hesitated like there was no fuel, had to crank it twice but then it started right up...

One last thing, the only code I have (and it is not a MIL code its just my obdii reader) is P0420...I am thinking that one of my bank 1 HO2 sensors might be shorted somewhere...

I did take off the intake manifold 4 times in the last 1 1/2 week to eliminate the vacuum leak...the wire harness has been jostled around a bit...

I will replace the battery and let you know what the results are...

Thanks for a great forum!

 

10V under the load of the starter is right on the edge. There's a test where you disable the ignition so the engine won't start, and crank for 15 seconds while reading the voltage. If a fully charged battery drops below 10V, it's bad. Forgive me, though, as I'm a bit fuzzy on how to disable the ignition on this car while still allowing the starter to crank. It's a test I've run many times on other vehicles, though.

Please note this is different than the minimum no-load voltage you'll often hear referenced in this forum. The early models (99-02) don't seem as finicky as the later cars, but battery condition is still important. Since you're already planning to replace the battery, I'd second that motion considering the current battery is of unknown age.

Keep in mind a new battery is usually not fully charged when purchased. Put it on the charger overnight to be sure.

The pre-start values you mentioned suggest a possible overnight drain. However, a marginal battery can also drop like that, so maybe repeat those tests with the new battery.


You may find this thread of interest, specifically post #6:


https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...x-hmmm-151396/


I'd suggest new upstream O2 sensors. You'd get a different code if the sensor itself was shorted. P0420 is just telling you the converter outflow (downstream sensor) is not any cleaner than the inflow (upstream sensor). Read that post to get an idea of how the computer determines this. Upstream sensors are normal wear and tear items, so it's well worth a gamble to replace them. Keep the existing downstream sensors.

For anybody else following along, please note this only applies to the early models (99-02) with narrow band sensors. Later models use wideband sensors that behave a little differently. More details in that thread.

 

If MIL is off then the code is not current and may as well not replace anything,

With a good battery check after a while that you have (pending) P1111 and no other codes then check fuel trims.

 

Excellent point! I don't know what got into me, suggesting more work than absolutely necessary. I hope you can find room in your heart to forgive me.

If the car had been running fine on the existing O2 sensors (other than the slow start), you always run the risk of introducing a new problem working on multiple issues at once. For noncritical faults like a P0420 code, it's best if you can drive for a couple of weeks after fixing problem A before tackling problem B. That way if any work inadvertently causes a new problem, you'd know the source. Not so if working multiple items at once.

 

Just an update...rather than just throw money at the problem hoping something works I took the battery out and took it to the auto store to test it...test came back as "good" but only 69% charged so I let them charge it...when I went to pick it up a different cashier was there and he tested it with a different testor it came back "bad"...apparently one of the testors was not working, so I took it to ANOTHER parts store and they tested it at 755 cranking amps it came back "good"...

So rather than chase my tail I put the battery back in and so far it is driving fine (I still get a slight amount of "pinging or engine knock/dieseling" sound at low rpms/under 1000 under load)...so far no MIL

I will add this, I was rather unprofessional in my remove/replace manifold process basically left the trunk open half a day with light on etc...and when I did drive it, it was not very far nor very long...my alternator is showing good voltage but I think it's possible I drained the battery down to below cranking amp capability and jumping it pushed it past the issue but I haven't allowed it to drive long enough for the alternator to trickle charge the battery back up to a sustainable level of charge.

I am not seeing any current drain when the car is off and the battery on its own does not drain out by itself.

It might just be a perfect storm of impatience and bad habits.

 

Often a battery will not recover properly so be suspicious of it.

What you describe sounds like you should investigate the fuel trims carefully.