Yep, you were absolutely correct, my single clean power fuse tested fine and has no sign of corrosion or damage. back to the drawing board. I will try and find out how to check power and ground to the RECM, thanks.

 

wipers and spray worked fine, sigh haha

 

Was there ever any doubt.

 

Anybody else got any ideas on this one? I don’t mean to be hogging the discussion.

My latest suggestion was to make sure the RECM was powering up properly. Some faults, such as the rear lights, rear windows, and sunroof are controlled via the RECM. My thoughts are if the RECM is not getting power, that same source is also affecting PATS.

If my latest crackpot theory is valid, the PATS transponder is not receiving power. Rather than tear apart the steering column to check power there, it would be easier to start with the RECM and correct that. With any luck, that will lead to a single shared fault affecting both locations.

 

I thought we'd ruled out a PATS problem. What suggests it even might be one? (Hint: I can't see anything...)

 

Hey mate. What happens is when I connect the battery there is no PATS error and I can read DTC Codes. Then serials comms is lost and PATS flashes code 16

 

Just me and my orthopedic thinking cap…

I’m not necessarily suggesting a “traditional” fault that sets a code, although now I see he is getting a 16. I was kinda thinking PATS wasn’t going through the normal proving process for reasons unknown, such as a lack of power or a missing prompt.

Consider this scenario. I’m at the shopping mall with my wife, whining nonstop that I want to leave. She flashes her spousal control stink-eye and tells me to go take a nap in the car.

I unlock the door and sit in the driver’s seat, reclining all the way back. I need a place to put the key, so it goes in the ignition but I don’t turn it. PATS sees the key-in signal and prepares for the next step when the key is turned and power is sent to the transponder for proving. But instead I nod off for a couple of hours while my wife shops in peace.

In that case, PATS didn’t complete the process but it’s not considered a fault. The engineers must have anticipated husbands and their naps

Let’s say we’ve got some undiscovered fault keeping the transponder from receiving power. Maybe it’s a blown fuse. Maybe a rat chewed a wire. Maybe the ignition switch has failed internally. Whatever the fault, the transponder isn’t powering up when it should. But unfortunately for us, PATS thinks it’s seeing the nap scenario, for which it’s programmed not to flag as a fault.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Unless the wind changes direction…

Now if I could only make sense of the new code 16.

 

Sorry! I missed the PATS code 16.

The attached shows it for 2000-on but it's probably the same for 1999

 

More thoughts, offered for free and worth every penny:


Check the inertia switch. This is located inside the cabin, just forward of the left front door hinges. If tripped, besides disabling the fuel pump, it also removes the “ignition on” signal to the RECM. In the wiring diagrams, see figures 01.4 and 01.5, with legend #11 inside a circle.

That MIGHT explain why the RECM is not communicating. Don't get your hopes too high, but it’s one more basic thing we should check.

 

Thanks. I have checked this a few times and its depressed like me, oops I mean as it should be

 

More basics to revisit. Both of the following were previously mentioned but I think your response may have got lost in all the activity.

See post #71. Did you ever confirm if the airbag light illuminates for a few seconds when the key is first turned to Run?

Post #74: Did you inspect and clean the connection where the battery's ground cable is attached to the body?

 

Yes airbag light goes on and then off again
I did remove clean and reinsert the bolt connecting the ground cable to the rhs of the car nearby too

 

if this helps at all, here is what is working and not from what I have seen so far:

front drivers door RHS works with key and fob
Drivers window works
Passenger front window works but needs to be reset (last thing on my mind)
Electric mirrors work
Washer and wipers work
Radio and cd work
AC Works (obvs not cold as no engine running but fans regulate and blow)
passenger seat controls work
Driver seat controls work - memory functions work too
Steering goes up and down, but not in and out
front indicators and lights work
Horn works
Interior lights and dimming work
If I hold unlock on the fob, the drivers window opens, previously all windows and sunroof would open
Trunk release button on dash works
Petrol cap release works

Doesnt work:
Rear doors and passenger door wont unlock with fob, no keyholes
Rear windows wont work
Sunroof doesnt work
rear lights and licence lights remain on when car is locked and when unlocked
Trunk release on fob doesnt work

I don't know if this helps much, but maybe it points to some modules working directly but still not communicating

I can also calibrate the front seat using IDS, that was fun, I had to jump out fast haha

 

That's a great summary and lists lots that works, ruling out much. I wish I could just figure what's wrong or what to test next! The Electrical Guide is my friend but my car's changed a lot from your era car.

 

Thanks man. Every time I find a logical thing to check re wiring and fuses, theres no fault. I am guessing now it is scp related only, but all I know is what Ive found with you guys and google so I just can't find a culprit.

I have thought maybe there is a ground strap thats missing. But being under the car near the starter, I cant see where one would go. Although it is possible a friend who helped has removed it and doesnt remember. But I juat can't see a place holder for it either.

 

The latest list is very helpful. I only wish I knew exactly what to suggest.

There’s one troubleshooting method I’ve seen lots of guys employ in frustrating situations like this. Have you tried running around like a chicken with its head cut off? Can’t say it’s a highly effective technique, but it does see widespread use.

How about physically inspecting the RECM? Reseating the connectors?

Has any water collected in the spare tire well? Our cars are notorious for this, with rainwater leaking past the trunk seal. This can wreak havoc with the electronics back there. If you had the front of the car raised during the starter replacement, maybe water collected where it normally wouldn’t?

 

Yep I took the casing off the ecu and checked it. It looks fine. No water at all in the trunk either

 

Hello again people. Long shot, but is there a braided ground strap that is meant to be located near the starter motor somewhere, engine or transmission to chassis possibly? Some research has suggested there is, but I cant seem to make that research elaborate at all. The guy who disconnected the starter for me, lets say, likes a smoke. So I am wondering if that is something he removed to work and hasnt put back.

I have the 2 big round braided cables that go to the starter live and ground connected, but this flat braided cable I am looking into, if it is meant to be there, I cant see it.

 

You are describing the engine ground strap, and on most models one end connects to a starter mounting bolt at the transmission bellhousing and the other end connects to a screw or stud at a point on the body or inner fender. The starter motor ground path is through the metal case of the starter, so if the ground strap is missing, the starter electrical circuit will not be complete, so the starter motor may not run properly or at all.

Double check where all the wires connected to the starter go at their other ends. Here's a cropped exerpt from the wiring schematic showing the connections to the battery, starter relay, starter and alternator (generator): The short cable at the lower left corner of the starter motor labeled B (Black) is the engine ground strap:





Cheers,

Don

 

Thank you Don. Its boiling outside so I will look into this when it cools down. I have checked the ground cable ia connected to the starter and cleaned the contact there. I will trace it and see if the other end is secure.

I know S Types vary a lot, what gave me the idea that a flat braided cable from the bell housing to the engine/trnas might be missing is this photo. Although it may not even exist on my car.