Recently purchased a used low mileage (<38000 miles) V6 S-Type and have been having problems with the ZF torque converter. Started out with a surging problem at 35-50mph so had the Jag dealer download the latest coded acces program for the transmission control module and verify latest software. Didn't correct the surging problem and Jag dealer said converter would need to be replaced due to slipping clutch. Had a trans shop put in a remanufactured unit after pulling the OEM converter and getting the codes off of it to ensure correct replacement. Replacement converter eliminated the surging problem but now I'm experiencing "jutter" in the 53-57mph range - vibration that feels like driving over a washboard on a road, or like a dull hammer-drill vibration that seems to be coming from the converter area. Other than that, car drives and shifts fine. I've been in touch with a Jag tech thru justanswer.com as well and latest feedback is that it may be a defective reman converter; wrong oil used to refill (doubt it as tranny shop bought special fluid from BAPGeon); or low oil level (not likely). Would appreciate suggestions from anyone who might be able to put me on the right track to get this, otherwise, pristine car road worthy. Tranny shop is wondering if lockup solenoid circuit might be faulty. Other inputs seem to suggest checking speed sensors and brake pedal switch for proper adjustment/operation.

Thanks for any help with this frustrating problem.

 

It does sound like the problem you are having could be the wrong fluid being used. I have spoken to a ZF rep & this was an issue he said you may have when not using the OEM fluid.

 

hmmmm, I don't believe that it would be not using the OEM fluid.

Possibly the incorrect fill of the ATF, but I am just tossing darts.

 

I'd doubt it was the fluid also.
What does the shop that fitted the TC say?

 

Thanks for the quick responses. I'll check with tranny shop to see exactly what fluid they refilled it with as it was an "add" to make up for lost fluid, rather than a complete refill, but I believe they sourced the recommended special fluid for the application from BAPGeon as it was about $14/quart. Doubt if it's an incomplete refill as they put in several quarts and it is shifting fine across all gear ranges with normal or hard acceleration. The replacement of the OEM converter with the remanufactured one eliminated the surging problem but started this new problem of "jutter" or vibration in the 55mph range, so the new converter definitely changed the way it was mis-behaving which leads me to believe the converter clutch in the original converter was the main source of the problem.

 

How does one get in touch with ZF? I'm a former Ford employee (15-1/2 years with Ford Microelectronics) and worked with Ford's EEC-IV engine controllers so have thought about trying to find a way to contact Jag powertrain engineers directly through my Ford contacts in Dearborn as I've found it impossible to do so through the Jag website. Everything is set up to funnel customers to the dealers but that's getting very expensive and hasn't completely solved the problem. This Jag has the 3liter Ford Duratec V-6 block in it with Jag VVTI heads, the ZF transmission, Lincoln LS radiator, etc., as it was built during Ford's ownership of Jag.

 

zf have the obvious web site and several offices so have you tried those? Not sure what you're going to ask.......

With OE tool you can probably monitor enough things that MAYBE a real ZF engineer or the like could figure what's wrong but I can't see they'll let you near one!

 

Just something to check. The drive shaft is very precisely balanced and the nuts and bolts holding the couplers together must be reassembled exactly the way they come from the factory. They are even painted different colors to help identify them.
Any chance the shop that dropped the tranny might have got this wrong?? If it's not noted and marked during dis-assembly they will have no reference for getting them correct when it's put back together.
.
.
.

 

Let's see if I got this right. You had the tranny pulled and the TC rebuilt and topped up the tranny with an unidentifiable ATF? Cured the original problem but now ya got a different one?

Now if you are going to pull the tranny ya should have drained all the fluid, pitched/replaced the oil pan (contains new filter), replaced the sleeve connector (it's gonna fail), replaced the front seal (cheap protection) and refilled with an appropriate fluid following the manufacturers instructions.

This advice is worth exactly what ya paid for it...

 

Thanks for the extra posts. Will check with the tranny shop on Monday regarding the fluid and drive shaft assembly. Great inputs! I am planning to have the pan/filter replaced and new fluid put in it but tranny shop recommended taking things one step at a time to see what corrects the problem. There may still be some issue with the tranny itself as the question begs to be asked as to what took out the converter clutch in the first place within 38000 miles?? The converter that was put in was a remanufactured unit that matched the codes on the OEM converter and the input seal was replaced. Drove the vehicle this morning and didn't observe the "jutter" at 55mph that it was exhibiting yesterday when I picked it up after the transplant. Plan to drive it some more this afternoon to see what it's doing.

 

There was a TSB on Gearbox Fault code P0741 on 03 and 04 S Type highlighting a lining failure on early S Types. Mine failed at 40K and I had the TC re-manufactured and all the ATF replaced. Your transmission shop gave you poor advice on not replacing the connector sleeve, oil pan and replacing all the fluid.

You cannot replace all the fluid without pulling the transmission and draining the TC which should have been done when it was out. A lost opportunity...

 

Don't know why the clutch goes out but it has been documented before and I think a TSB was issued but I don't have it. Several people have had TQ replacements under warranty.

Does anyone have the TSB and can you post it??
.
.
.

 

not that it means anything, but the dealer had an option of doing mine with a rebuilt TC, however they opted for the upgraded one. It did take about 2 weeks to get there though.

 

Here are the S307 TSBs I have for your car. You should have the latest software installed on your TCM to be sure it operates correctly.

I had a forum members 03 S-Type in my shop this past March for a poor shift fault and it was a low fluid problem. I replaced the leaking plastic pan and topped up the system with the correct Jaguar fluid. I test drove the car and it had very harsh shifts. The TCM was still trying to slam the clutches as if it was still low on fluid (adaptation).

I used WDS (ver 43) to clear adaptations and the WDS advised that the procedure would take longer than normal because a newer software was available for the ECM and TCM. I hooked up my battery charger to keep the battery voltage up during the 'reflash'. If the battery voltage drops too low during programming, it could cause serious problems (see TSB 1-186)

The programming was completed and the trans shifted normally again.

You should at least clear the current adaptation and drive the car as described in TSB S307-17.

I think the WDS version 43 will not need the 10 digit coded access reconfiguration process (WDS did not ask for coded or uncoded when I reflashed) I remember the earlier versions did and we had to call Jaguar Tech-Line for codes. If you are not a Jag Dealer they won't give any info.

There might be newer info than I have but this is what I have since 2006 when I left the dealer.

bob gauff

 

Before TC replacement with a rebuild, I had Jag dealer load and verify latest TCM software from a coded access program download as advised by a Jag tech on just answer.com and this did not correct the original surging problem. Jag said it needed a TC. No leaks on this 38000 mile Jag and with replaced torque converter it is no longer surging but now exhibits "jutter" in the 50-70mph range with the remanufactured TC. It drives and shifts fine across all gears under normal or hard acceleration. Jag tech thinks problem may be the remanufactured TC. I drove the car again this afternoon and it's still exhibiting jutter above 50mph - rapid hammering sound similar to a hammer-drill but very subdued in the cab. Original owner had an extended service warranty and presume TSBs were executed, although dealer showed only replacement of engine control module under a recall earlier in the vehicle's life and replacement of the H-shifter mechanism a few months ago before he traded it in (and I got stuck with the problems after the selling dealer apparently concealed the fact it had a drivetrain problem - didn't manifest itself during the test drive with the engine hot and started surging the day after we bought it - didn't expect such problems with only 37,700 miles on the vehicle which is otherwise in mint condition and was well cared for). Tranny shop that did the transplant is researching next steps. Jag tech recommends swapping in another TC.

 

Believe 03 and earlier Type-3 V6's had a Lincoln transmission, while the 04 and up have the 6-speed ZF automatic transmission and TC.

 

No. 2003 and up S type are the 6 speed ZF. Early cars the Ford 5 speed.
.
.
.

 

Thank you very Bob! Great list of TSB's.
.
.
.

 

Thanks! Does look like the change to the ZF trans was for '03 model year, maybe starting after mid-02 with VIN M45225 as that VIN seems to keep popping up as the transmission change point in various communications I've seen???? Mine was produced 11/03 as an 04 model with VIN N08995.

 

Looks like the tranny shop that did the converter swap to the remanufactured TC refilled the transmission with Mercon SP versus ZF fluid, so there is a mixture in it now (dang; but what's done is done!). They claim to have followed the recommended procedure of allowing overflow until fluid was in proper temp range before installing the fill plug so doubt if my "jutter" problem with the reman TC is due to underfilling. Seems to be a lot of controversy as to whether the ZF and Mercon SP fluids are equivalent or the same. Supposedly both conform to the same Shell spec with the ZF labeled fluid made by Shell in Europe and the Mercon SP fluid made for FoMoCo (Motorcraft) by Shell in Houston - base mineral oil + additives. Found a BMW thread that suggests there is a raging controversy over the equivalency of these two fluids despite their both conforming to the same spec?? Big cost difference. Seems to be a "camp" that thinks the ZF fluid has different additives than the Mercon SP and where they sit relative to the Shell performance spec. Understand Ford/Lincoln are using the Mercon SP in their vehicles equipped with the ZF6HP26 transmission versus the ZF fluid. Thinking maybe I'll see if the local Ford dealership could perform a flush with the Mercon 6 as other than Jag dealerships (super expensive) not sure who would have a flush machine set up for ZF or Mercon SP fluids?? A flush would be the only way to clear out the ZF/Mercon mixture in the transmission and get back to a single fluid type if there is merit to the concern for having mixed these two fluids. Learning as we go, but it's getting costly! If these tranny manufacturers hadn't eliminated dipsticks on the tranny's, a fluid exchange could be easily done out the cooler hose with fresh fluid into the dipstick tube - no such luck! Technology defeats us again!!