yes, after the car was towed home I replaced the fuse and reset the inertia switch. don't know if it was tripped just rest it.

 

The safety cut off (inertia) switch doesn't blow a fuse as part of its operation, so it's not that unless it's shorting and the design is such that I really doubt that.

I've never run one of these pumps on the bench but I'd expect a supply direct to it should make it run. It might run too hard, I suppose - just thinking aloud as I don't know if the PWM duty cycle ever goes to 100% or not.

I guess it may want something to pump (rather than air) and also, as the pumps are normally cooled by fuel, don't work it too hard for too long.

Oh, and if using gas (petrol) be careful as it's all too willing to burn or explode.....

Sorry if I've seemed to think anyone an idiot - I haven't thought that. Just the way I write, I guess - no offence intended.

 

why is it the s-type electrical diagrams are only up to 2004. I have that version and it doesn't match (at least wire colors) to what my 2005 has in it. Very hard to deal with.
Same with JTIS only find 2004, nothing after.

 

Jagv8, you have been very good in helping me. As I gain the knowledge I then understand some of your comments and I realize how dumb I sound.. I re-read this entire thread and many things make more sense now.

 

JTIS was discontinued then. It went online and is now jag's TOPIx. It has the newer diagrams etc. (Don't know if they updated the wire colours, though - I'd hope so but mistakes happen.)

TOPIx is where the free handbooks are, choose link top rightish Technical something or other. You have to register and it's non-free. Have plenty of time free and then blitz downloads etc

 

Wow... Topix requires you to be a shop to get access to the information to service your own car.. what a crock.... I understand a fee to get info, very little is free these days, but to have a contract only allowing shops access really stinks. I thought the days of this kind of stuff was long behind us. This is to help keep shops open?? or to avoid owners asking questions? It gets me angry.

 

I believe your government by law requires them to provide non-discriminatory access to anyone so either ignore wording (or decide you meet it for your own car) or complain to the regulatory body which is probably EPA or CARB or someone.

 

I'm waiting for tomorrow to scope the electric to the pump so I thought, hey test the fuel line from the pump (already removed) to the pressure valve (also removed). I'm doing the test because of the suggestion that my fuel pump failures might have been caused by a blocked line.

So bright me figures shoot some air thru the line and check the air flow at the s valve. Guess I am missing something because the air doesn't go and builds up in the line real fast (a few seconds). Maybe the fuel line doesn't go to the valve directly but somewhere else first... OR could the new fuel filter be completely blocked after 3 months, doubt that. The tank looks clean inside, the dead pump's pickup filter is clean, again only 3 months and 2000 miles.

SO if anyone knows why my "bright" idea of shooting air thru the line didn't work please let me know.

Thanks.

I will pull the fuel filter off tomorrow and see if that changes things.

 

I suppose the filter could be blocked but I would not think air tight. Beats me! But not something I've ever tried (no air line).

 

ok, finished testing fuel pump connection with a scope. Very clever stuff. Having voltage to the pump at all times is not problem since there is no draw.
It seems the pump itself must have smarts buried inside to control flow between the two sides of the tank and the fuel pressure requests to the engine. These control signals are carried on the voltage lines at a very low level. I could see the signal come through when the ignition is turned on. There are other signals /control being passed along all the time, kind of like a guard or watchman always there.
At this point I assume installing a new pump will be ok, and the failure of the last one was just bad luck. I hope.

 

what type of fuel filter you using and from were? I think their were some bad ones from the dealer's. one of my friends that works at one had some issuse with oem ones. car dying after changing them out he try 3 new one's same issuse put a old one in worked fine. Got a aftermarket one and worked find after that. maybe looking into a new fliter.
just an idea.

 

Couple things. 1. The fuel level between sides is controlled by a siphon/jet pump on the drivers side. The main pump creates this siphon in the internal pipes of the tank and go to the drivers side. this keeps the level mostly the same while driving. 2. There are zero smarts in the pump. All that pump needs to run is a power and ground. The REM controls both. The PWM is on the ground side and the B+ only goes through the REM as a check to illuminate the MIL if there were a problem with the B+ to the pump. The easiest way to test this pump is to supply a power and ground to it. The wire colors are Red and Yellow. It doesn't matter how you connect it, just be careful that you use a fused jumper so if you do happen to touch the wires together you don't blow the battery you are using to supply power and ground. You want to hear the pump run. If it does then disconnect the fuel supply at the fuel rail and check for flow. If nothing comes out but the pump runs, then switch the leads on the Red and Yellow wires. As long as there is fuel in the tank and the pump is good, you will get fuel from the line. If nothing comes out then disconnect the pipe at the tank flange and find a suitable pipe to put in place of the outlet pipe on the flange. Run the pump again. If nothing then open the tank up and replace the pump. If good flow then you have a blockage in the pipe.
Last but not least, send me you whole VIN in a message and I can see if the fuel tank update was done. If you are not the original owner then you may not have gotten notice of it. Hope this helps.

 

OK, still waiting on the new pump. I put in a new purolator filter (from Advance) before the pump failure, pulled the filter off today, it is clean and the flow thru it is good.

Black, I didn't understand everything you said but looking at some diagrams of 04 and 05 s_types I seem to have one of the odd ones. My pump, on right side, has 2 long hoses running inside the tank to a lonely pickup filter on the left. Left has a 2 wire rheostat also. I find it interesting when fuel is put into the tank it flows into the right side, some how it gets to the left side to keep levels balanced. I have seen diagrams of a different type of pump with hoses outside the tank running between the right and left. Jaguar tells me based on my vin I "should" have the other type of pump BUT as they said "things happen and the vin isn't always correct with what is found". LOL

I tested the pump just as you said and it did nothing, verified the current was there and had a 15 amp fuse in the line. Pump did absolutely nothing. I expected it to blow the fuse but it didn't. I also tested the setup on an old small 12volt dc motor I have and it worked fine.
I also shot air through the fuel line from the tank to the filter connection, it is clear.
It seems on 05 there is no longer a schrader valve to test fuel pressure. I followed the fuel line completely, nothing there.

Thank you for all the info, I hope my ramblings make some sense.

 

I talked to Jaguar in the past and they said my car wasn't part of the fuel tank recall. Thank you for offering to look it up.

 

Hopefully, I am able to help! The mind thinks one thing but the fingers typing may do something else. That test is good and I'm sorry that the pump went out again. Early S-types had a schrader valve right below the intake bellows going to the t/body. I cannot remember if they took that of the S-types or not. I know the X-types lost it in 04. There is a ford style disconnect there as well. This is where we hook up a fuel injection service kit.

As far as the tank, it is called a saddle tank where there are essentially two reservoirs to hold the fuel. The upper portion of the tank is how the fuel in the right gets into the left as you fill it up. To keep the level roughly the same during driving (so that one side is not heavier than the other) the jet/siphon is used. You are correct in seeing the two pipes going to the left (for the siphon) as well as the wires for the level sender. Nearly all tanks of this design have two senders so that the gauge reads an average not a "live" reading.

Let us know how you make out with the pump.

I saw a HUGE number of early S-types with clogged filters and bad pumps. The service interval was 70k then and some would not make it that far and burn the pump.

Mark

 

Black..
I thought mine was in the later 05 run but Carfax shows it being imported into the US in Feb of 04. Yes 2004 !!!!
Talked to Jag again today about any incomplete recalls on the car and I had to laugh. The girl said the car had been in Italy because the service records were in Italian. LOL. The carfax report shows it imported to the US in 02/14/2004, first title in 03/05/2005, I bought it in 11/2007. I doubt anyone would have shipped it to and from Italy. No outstanding recalls, maybe they were done in Italy. Ha ha.

I have 50k miles on the car. Replaced the filter after the first pump went out just to be safe. I am going to replace it again before I put in this new pump.

Thanks for the help and good wishes, I'll post after the pump goes in.

 

Italian, strange. I like to look up things myself cause I know what kind of stuff the writers and such will say to someone who doesn't bring their car to the dealership. The last six of the VIN are all I need. I am curious now cause sometimes the screen that shows the information has a glitch in the computer and does show a foreign language. The dates as well dont really match up either. I do know that Italian cars have AMBER rear side markers. I noticed them when I was in Rome one time and saw an S-type. I got all excited cause it was different from the US. As well, if it were really an Italian car, there would be other signs like the instrument pack would be in KMH, along with other thing you surely would have thought strange over the years you've owned it.
Now I say strange things happen and carfax is not always right due to the fact that I bought a 1994 fullsize two door Blazer in 1999 from a chevy dealer. Truck had about 100k on it at the time and the paint was fresh along with the windows were strangely very clear like they were recently replaced. I really liked it and bought it anyway. Did a carfax and it said it was first registered with 1 mile on it in Delaware with no date. No previous owners showed. Second registration was with the mileage i bought it with and the relatively current date at the time. That was questionable for sure. Had the truck three or four years and absolutely loved it (should have kept it in hindsight). Fast forward a couple years. Was in Mobile, Alabama at a dealership getting some U-joints done cause I was on a road trip. They ran the warranty history and come to find out the truck came from Canada and had bunch of work done in and out of warranty up there, even the u-joints. Had a brake switch recall done on it while it was there. Loved the truck and that didn't deter me, turns out it had fewer miles cause the KMH cluster was changed to MPH cluster and someone just ran the odometer to read the same number.

My point is, Carfax is just one piece of information. Send me the last six of the VIN and I can tell you what year your car is so that you can get the right equipment. As well, 2004 is like the 2003 cars and there werent too many 2004 cars. 2005 production started earlier than a normal model year would have.

Sorry if i'm long winded. I like to get the all the information and know the whole story myself so that i dont give you the wrong information.

 

Pump in and working. Had some rough running when the car first started up but it has smoothed out now. The engine light came on, had two codes P2118 and P1111. I cleared them both and will see if anything comes back. With all the messing around I did I was surprised I only got those two codes. lol. Hope this pump last for the life of the car...
PS. I ordered a 2004 JTIS disk off of ebay and a code reader scanner

Thanks to everyone for the help, insight, info, and patience during this terrible time.

 

Good news! I've posted re P1111 in your other thread.

 

Hi
I just want to remind forum members that the JTIS21 Jaguar Shop Repair Manual is a free download here on the forum.

Here are 2 JPEG files:
First One is a scanned image of the JTIS21 CD:



The other one is screen capture showing the 2004 S-Type selected and has the table of contents displayed. The fuel transfer pump is selected.



Here is the JTIS21 Download file and download information thread, go to post #1:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...uctions-54640/

Review all the posts in the JTIS21 thread - they give some insight on install and use issues.

The JTIS21 Download file thread is also listed in the S-Type FAQ thread, post#1, go down to the Software/Firmware, JTIS21 CD Download and install thread:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ype-faq-41364/

Jim Lombardi