Hi all, just a quickie - is there anyone out there who is able to give info on the difference between the expensive oils like the ZF stuff, or Mercon SP etc and the cheaper normal Dexron III atf.

I'm asking this question because I live in the back of beyond so availability is an issue and I'd prefer not to have to spend £10 a litre when I can get Dexron III from the local Carrefour for 9€ for 2 litres.


Does anyone know why it is soooooh important to put this long-life stuff in - as I prefer to change all oils more often.

Plus initially it was supposed to be a "sealed for life" 'box so no-one worried about the cost of replacing the oil, but we now all know that this sealed for life business is just a crâppy no sense at all idea.

Cheers for any and all replies,

Dave

 

Dexron is different in lots of ways. Mercon SP - pass. I'm not aware whether its full details are even available let alone the same.

People here buy the kit from www.bristoltransmissions.co.uk I think. Quite affordable and has all the parts incl. oil.

 

This link has solid information on why Mercon SP is equiavalent to ZF Lifeguard 6.
BMW/ZF 6AT (ZF Lifegaurd6=Ford Mercon SP) - Bob Is The Oil Guy

Other posts are on the web that mirror what this thread shows.

 

Can't say I'd bother to save 0.68 a quart.

 

In US, Mercon SP is $6/quart vs. $18/quart for LG 6.

 

Think your LG6 figure may be a bit old there. Try Klaus.

 

He has it on offer right now for $19.53/l

 

Oh

There are full kits of all the parts for a service with oil, pan, filter, sleeve, etc that work out fairly cheap. Way less than a new box, anyway!

For me they should just go back to a dipstick etc. It just worked. Why ruin it.

 

Bearing in mind that Dexron III is just a standard not a product, it makes me wonder what the differences in specification are, between Dexron III standard oil, Mercon SP and the ZF Lifeguard oil.

I don't want my gearbox filled with oil that is supposed to last forever - but doesn't. I want a gearbox oil that I changed every year or so, so there is always clean oil in the 'box. But at £10 a litre and needing 6 litres+ at each change, that makes it pricey.


Looks like I'm going to have to do some original research and post it on here.

 

Dave, have you searched (trawled) all the fluid threads here, there is a lot of info there from some people who have used alternatives.
IIRC Rick (Joycesjag) used Castrol multi vehicle import fluid which is on Amazon for $35 for 6x1quarts 3? years ago and still going strong.
Just one example and I don't know if it's available in France.

 

Dave-

I'm not sure the only difference between factory fill oil and your proposed substitute would be the service life.

It appears that fluid replacement at intervals of 100K miles/160K KM is adequate to keep the gearbox happy and healthy.

 

Change it yearly? No way. No point.

Give the price of the full kit at bristol trans it's quite cheap oil, whatever it is. It won't be Dexron spec.

Millers make a suitable oil, too. See UK forum.

 

Yes I did use the Castrol Multi Import log ago. Its even a mix of the Castrol and the OEM Lifeguard6. Several thousand miles and still no issues!

When Jon (Jon89) and I did his XK8s pan and sleeve a month ago, he discovered that the "New" Castrol Multi Import ATF is no longer recommended with our ZF boxes.

 

Yep, that's what Castrol tech support told me some time ago. But I believe they have taken that position for legal reasons, not ATF formulation reasons. As long as the Castrol product still meets the required Shell specs, I would have no problem using it....

If I were doing nothing more than a drain-and-fill today (no pan drop, no sleeve change), I would go with Mercon SP. Very cost-effective and several respected members here have already paved the way, including Reverend Sam....

The only reason I went with Lifeguard 6 in my wife's XK8 last month when Rick and I did that job was because it's her car, I presented all the options to her, and she felt that a new pan/gasket/sleeve/Lifeguard 6 kit from Klaus would give us the best chance to cure the intermittent harsh shifts she was experiencing more and more. Klaus' kit and a ZF Adaptations Drive Cycle reflash at the Greensboro Jaguar dealership indeed cured the shift problems as well as the infamous "ZF bark" that had recently begun. As a result, she is once again in love with her XK8....

Thanks again, Rick! When I'm ready to do a drain-and-fill on our S-Type (probably in early 2014), are you willing and able?!!

 

Who is this klaus with the ZF kit, including the lifeguard oil, and how much approx. does he sell this complete kit for?

 

Go to The CTSC - ZF Parts and spend some time on his website. He's in California, so I do not know how much it will cost to ship his kit to Canada....

Klaus was a ZF engineer for 35 years. He started his own little business a few years ago and can save you substantial money if you want to do the full service. That means new pan/filter, new pan/filter gasket, new fill plug, new sleeve, and six litres of Lifeguard 6....

 

OK I'm starting to get my teeth into this autobox ATF requirement business.

Please find 2 docs attached for your pleasure.

It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that the ATF requirement is deliberately complicated when, in fact it is nothing of the sort.

1. ZF say you must only use our atf - which is hilarious as it's not theirs, it's Shell ATF;

2. One of the docs attached is a ZF pdf doc and in it, it states "Depending on the driving style, ZF therefore recommends a transmission oil change every 80 000 to 120 000 km, or after 8yrs at the latest".

Sealed for life, my ârse !!!

PS I've tried to upload the ZF pdf document a few times without success, so here's a link to it:

http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/produ...abid=1#results.

It's worth downloading, honestly !

 

I read your attachment which was of background info + your position. I generally agree with you assessment thus I'm using Mercon SP for the last 10,000 miles.

However keep in mind that the fluid handles not only power transfer, mechanical actuation but also clutch engagement. This last part varies widely between transmission manufactures and more the calibration of the clutch engagement. Thus a specific fluid will have specific friction modifiers 'tuned' to their specific application.

 

Dave,

I'm afraid you're adding 'blue' to 'Wednesday' and concluded that 'three' is the answer.

The spec for Dexron is controlled by GM. Whether that reads across to the spec for the ZF gearboxes used in our cars- who knows and frankly, who cares? Ford has a spec, Chrysler has a spec, Mercedes, BMW etc etc.

Given the cost of a replacement transmission, there is no way on earth that I'd be the guinea pig to try it out.

Yes, Jaguar at one point stated sealed for life. Turns out that 'life' meant something less than infinite. 100K miles seems to be the consensus from the field. If ZF wants to insist on even less from their experience, I see no problem.

 

I loved the first part of your reply, thought it was very funny.

The 2nd part seems to show to me that the manufacturers care much more about initial sales than ongoing service requirements and Jaguars' standpoint is obviously all about seducing new car punters into believing these cars are cheaper to service than is the case in reality.

I like working on cars, I like to understand whether someone is blowing smoke and I really like my jaguar, so I will be servicing it much more often than the manufacturer recommends.

Having looked around a lot over the last few days my take is that Millers Millermatic DM is the way to go and I can buy it for approx £20 for a 5 ltr can, which seems like a good value deal.

The Millers oil by the way is equal to or better than Dexron IIIH


Dave