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Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ

 
  #1  
Old 04-19-2015, 02:22 PM
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Default Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ

Continuing on from this thread: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...2/#post1209880

I have taken a lot of my car apart but not everything yet because what started out as a probably tranny cooler line leak, that is the biggest one too, has now blossomed into both tranny lines leaking, one badly and two engine oil lines weeping and probably an oil pan gasket weeping as well.

By Joe this is a real Jaguar all right not just some copy CAT of a **** ant little Ford because all fluids are leaking simultaneously! All this @ only 50K miles too!

Bravo Jaguar!

So I may be removing more stuff than was outlined in the previous thread.
The engine oil cooling lines really don't seem that bad and at first I though perhaps it's blow over from the one really bad tranny line but it doesn't look that way to me.

I'll post some photos later.

I think the engine oil cooling lines can come out intact without some odd removal or engine lifting gymnastics bit I haven't tried as yet and I can't consult the JTIS until I figure out how to load that. I do have an aftermarket CD manual so I'll look in there as well.

Don't have them out yet but I am thinking about having the local hose shop convert the pip ends for push-lock hose or listen to what they have to say about it. The originals have a traditional crimp on style hose which has failed on all four hoses rather poorly in my view. This car has not been abused and I've had push-lock hose installations of mine go for 25 years without ever a leak. So I find this unacceptable.

Jaguar replacement hoses don't impress me so let's see what the local hose shop has to say.

In the other thread 2004-STR - Mike has shown how a nice set of compression fitting on pipe to AN style connectors can be utilized and that's another possibility if the tubes can't be directly converted by welding them to a push-lock male.

more later ...
 
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Old 04-21-2015, 06:34 AM
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So I'm going to go the push-loc hose route but with the exist tubes and double set of clamps like these.

316ss Original Clamp (10 pack) - #08

The hose I'm using is left over from an engine oil cooling system on another car I did last year but it's this stuff. I replaced a set of hoses that went for 25 years WO incident. It's not the same exact fittings but I went by my super hose shop here in N NJ, they are huge, and they thought this would be fine too.

http://www.parker.com/literature/Hos...%20Plus_UK.pdf

801-8-BLK-RL 1/2" Parker Push-Lok Hose (Price per Foot)

With only 2 ft needed this plus the clamps isn't going to break the bank and I don't have to try and remove those torturously intertwined tubes as this is all done in situ! I have removed the upper tube-to-radiator for better access.

I still have to cut off the remaining 3 crimp collars though ... so more fun ahead.

On my car at least the oil cooler hoses can be had for about $65 each new. I may go that route, not sure just yet.
 
Attached Thumbnails Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-hose-clamps-abaorig316ss.jpg  
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Old 04-21-2015, 11:31 AM
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Oil pan gasket. Under $13. No sealer required.

Amazon.com: Victor Reinz OS32287 Oil Pan Gasket Set: Automotive Amazon.com: Victor Reinz OS32287 Oil Pan Gasket Set: Automotive

Ir's available from plenty of places like AutoZone too.
 
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:42 AM
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I spent another 2 hours yesterday getting the crimp ends off of the upper transmission cooler pipes.

I then removed the oil filter and attempted to remove one of the engine oil cooler pipes. No dice. The radiator fan will have to come out first so that was put off until today.

I need to do that first to obtain the best access for the lower end trans cooler pipes.

So I just finished three hours to get the intercooler pump and DCCV out. A couple of hoses need to come off for the pump (photos later) so as to get it out of the way to get at the DCCV which is held in by one very long bolt and then it too like the pump will slide towards the rear of the car off brackets that are formed as a part of the fan shroud. Hard to tell that until you get the pump out though.

Besides, even if you knew, pushing both of those pieces off of the brackets with all of the hoses attached and leave enough room to pull up the fan would be impossible for me. You also have to disconnect the wiring harnesses.

I also removed the RH fender liner and that was of no help for getting at the DCCV and intercooler pump but it may have made access to the fans two modular plugs easier?

So once those two pieces are out of the way it's still a SOB to pull that fan up and out of there but first you need to detach the pair of modular plugs at the end of the fans harness. Also a bit difficult until you know how everything goes together.

And why is it that with all the modular plugs on this car everyone of them releases differently and is hard to see exactly how they work at first?

Builds character ... LOL

Once the fan is out then you can easily remove the oil pipes. That's the easiest part!

And getting this back together won't be easy either because I had to cut some wire ties that held stuff in place and I won't be able to put new ones in their place during assembly as it's just too cramped.

This stuff is assembled in a very specific order and manner at the factory and by their subs. It's not meant to be serviced really.

I need to chill out a bit then take a few more photos.

Then the power wash with solvent to removed all of that dirt & oil from the leaks.

I have to wonder at the design of these engine oil cooling pipes and hoses.
I think the earlier STR setup looks far simpler and may be easier to service?
I'm temped to re engineer these for much better access for repairs but that can be quite time consuming and with new ones in place I won't ever see this repair again.
 
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:09 AM
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Default Some photos of what it looked like.

First up is one of the engine oil cooler hoses. That's oil and dirt around the fitting but the lighting here sort of hinds that in the photo - looks like a slow weep to me so it's coming out while everything is all apart.

The other hose can be seen underneath that.

Then there's another shot of the same hose from another angle. You can see the now detached tranny cooler hoses with the one tube still attached. as you can see it leaked badly and so it is possible that some of that got blown over and deposited on the engine cooler line but there are leaks all the way over on the other side as well and I'm just not going to chance it.

The next photo shows that end.

Up next is a shot of one of the tranny cooler lines, very messy. This was before I had taken anything apart so viewing is restricted.

There there a couple of photos of the leaking tranny lines .

After that are some shots of the oil leaks around the back side of the engine sump. They don't appear to be related to the tranny hose leak either so a new gasket is going there.

The last one is a shot of the oil cooler hose from the LH side, The RH side had a similar leak as well.

THis left a really messy blanket of oil & sand everywhere on the front of the engine and accessories which got cleaned off. Now onto replacement parts and some new hose for the tranny cooler with hose clamps.

DCCV has arrived as has the sump gasket.
I'm working on assessing the belts, pulleys and tensioners as I have a winter only bearing like noise that goes away when the engine warms up.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...winter-141494/

A full tranny fluid exchange will be done at another time so I'll just top it up for now. No leaks back there at least!
 
Attached Thumbnails Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6083.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6087.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6091.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6071.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6074.jpg  

Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6076.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6077.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6079.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6089.jpg  

Last edited by Staatsof; 04-24-2015 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:52 AM
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Do yourself a big favor and go ahead with a full ATF drain-and-fill as part of this service. Why wait?
 
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon89 View Post
Do yourself a big favor and go ahead with a full ATF drain-and-fill as part of this service. Why wait?
My plate is already pretty full, I do have other things to do ,,, , but yes it will get done right after this is all buttoned up. The access for these repairs don't have any bearing on the tranny fluid change. Currently I'm not on a level surface. A spot to work on the car here is not easy, there are a lot of restrictions.

There are two identical wear marks on the metal portions of these engine oil cooling hoses both in almost identical spots on the separate hoses too. One looks serious.

Photos later. But something has been poking at the aluminum on these ...

So here are the photos. That bigger one is quite deep.
 
Attached Thumbnails Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6099.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6100.jpg  

Last edited by Staatsof; 04-24-2015 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 04-24-2015, 05:21 PM
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I changed a weeping oil cooler line on my 2005 STR from underneath. Only removed the belly pans for working room. It looked like a lot more work to go at it from the top.
.
.
.
 
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:51 PM
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No way for the RH one to come out WO removing the radiator fan and that is a lot of work because of the intercooler pump and DCCV. They have to go down through the bottom between the front frame rail and the radiator.

I'm exploring having the originals converted to AN-10 fittings and using more hose than the factory did. I have a suspicion that the the relatively short piece of hose (only 1/3 of the entire assembly) doesn't allow for enough flexibility and thus the crimp joints get stressed and start leaking. Unlike the tranny hoses these were not spinning on the pipes.

On the tranny hoses those crimp sleeves were way too weak and by the time I go to them the hoses were just spinning freely on the metal pipes. This is very poor engineering IMHO. Also these pieces are also rather short but I'm not going to try to lengthen these. Push-loc style hose and those really beefy clamps with two per end is what I'm banking on. It's very tight and can be further tightened in the future if need be.
 
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:09 PM
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IMPORTANT NOTICE

So in this post https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...8/#post1213355

There are a couple of photos highlighting some wear marks in the aluminum oil cooler pipes. One is quite deep.

I'm pretty sure I've identified the cause now and why they're very similar spots on both sides of the car.

These spots line up with the the back side of the screws that attach the front lip of the belly pan (typically removed for oil changes) to front the front underside pan that attaches directly to to the bumper.

If you locate the front center bolt on the belly pan it's the bolts on either side of that which must be poking at the pipe and wearing a hole.

I think shortening that bolt or adding some washers behind the heads of these bolts will solve this.


My front bumper cover was replaced several years ago due to a tear in the spoiler lip so I don't know if that job has somehow affected the alignment of everything. But the routing these oil cooler line assemblies if torturous at best. I have to wonder if the earlier STR cars from 2003 & 2004 have a better routing?
 

Last edited by Staatsof; 04-26-2015 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:26 PM
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Next oil change I'll look at mine - thanks.
 
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JagV8 View Post
Next oil change I'll look at mine - thanks.
Just adding a pair of washers to those two bolts would work on my car at least and that can be done WO dropping the pan.

But I'll be interested in hearing what you find. These parts of the car are the least precise so results can vary.

I've also decided upon getting another set of OEM hoses as looking at the entire set of pieces today left me with a less than satisfactory feeling that I could improve upon the situation without waaaaaay more effort than I care to expend. I'll be done with the car before another 50K miles.

The originals leave much to be desired though.
 
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:12 AM
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I spent a bit of time yesterday looking into reusing a portion of the old oil cooler hose assemblies and which it is possible to weld aluminum bung style male AN-10 style fittings to accommodate new hose the routing on this car is very, very tight and full of sharp objects. I just thought it would be very difficult to make it work right. Not that the originals are very good either ...

But If I get another 50K miles and 4 or 5 years I probably won't have the car any longer. The pair were $120.

The tranny cooler lines are giving some trouble on the portion that gos to the transmission. It's hard to push the hose over the end s of the pipes alone so I need to get a helper for that. Using the compression-to-AN-8 male fittings outline in the other thread would be easier in that spot.

The other ends to the cooler are fine though. It's a tight fit with rolled edge SS hose clamps and it's not going to leak.
 
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Old 05-08-2015, 05:55 PM
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So I ended up putting the compression fitting to 8-an fittings on the tranny side of those tubes. It wasn't so easy though. It turns out that the company suggested in the other thread has a bit of a problem machining stuff accurately so I would not recommend using their fittings. They look great but one of them was undersized to slightly less than 1/2" so I spent 45 minutes in a difficult location with a sanding sponge to reduce the diameter of the tube.

Lovely.

Then getting everything placed and adjusted so that there's enough clearance for hoses and pipes required a bit of bending of the one of the upper aluminum tubes but now it's fine. Damn ther are a lot of things to look out for in there. I doubt dealer mechanics are always so careful. It would be cost prohibitive.

It shouldn't have been this difficult, ah they always say that!

Tomorrow the rest of the junk goes back in.

Then oil pan gasket change.

Full tranny service.

Coolant flush.

And hopefully a car with no leaks!
 
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Old 05-09-2015, 02:10 PM
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Default Does aluminum oxide in your oil sound like a good idea?

It's official for me now. This is the car from hell.

I'm ready to put on the new engine oil cooling hoses which I bought because even though the originals are built poorly and were weeping at all four joints It was just faster and not enough difference in price to be worth me fabricating new ones.

Well that changed today as I opened up the new ones in sealed plastic bags and there was a lot of white corrosion dust on the connector ends. Not crucial since they are sealed at each end with a plug.

WRONG! The corrosion extends all the way into the tubes and basically these are worthless. The production date says one year ago and they didn't spray anything on them to prevent this. Clearly they were wet when assembled.

This car has been down for a long time now and it's way beyond irritating.
It's a liability so once fixed it's probably gone.

If I had paid to have this done at an independent shop or even a Jag dealer who knows if the mechanic would have rejected these and introduced a lot of delay. Then I'd be looking at the possibility of engine failure and how would I have known about it?

Both hoses were this way too.
 

Last edited by Staatsof; 05-09-2015 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:44 AM
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The dealership I ordered the oil cooler hose assemblies from is sending a new set to me so hopefully these will be corrosion free. But this adds another week of no car since the parts cannot be drop shipped directly to me - argh!

Just in time for it to get ugly hot in NJ too. It may hit 90F and 90% humidity.

I'm not sure I'm going to tackle the oil pan gasket leak today. With the very late spring this year the tree I'm parked under has hit it's peak flowering period during this "up on blocks siesta" and dumped all of the flowers on the car. I have to blow the flowers off at least twice a day and if I have the hood open during a breeze the engine gets covered in flowers.

This is a first for me, ahh the hazards of outdoor auto repair - frickin' flowers!

This photo now shows it's almost over but the last week + it's looked like a funeral car most of the time.
 
Attached Thumbnails Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6125.jpg  

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Old 05-12-2015, 06:45 AM
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.
 

Last edited by Staatsof; 05-12-2015 at 06:46 AM. Reason: dup post
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:58 AM
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Hi,
Just had my oil cooler inlet pipe changed cause of little weeping. Was noticed under Finnish MOT test and oil was just noticeable amount to show top of the cover. Problem was search and found out to be the inlet pipe. Had read this topic before this happened so thank you all for inputs. At the same time pipes which had eaten each other vere put in order to not rub themselves out.
Pipeing was from SNG and labour was taken local shop. Was 500 euros total but a little compared to peace of mind the fixing caused.

Regards
 
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:46 AM
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Default Belly pan bolt - Aluminum oil tube rubbing follow up

Originally Posted by Staatsof View Post
There are two identical wear marks on the metal portions of these engine oil cooling hoses both in almost identical spots on the separate hoses too. One looks serious.

Photos later. But something has been poking at the aluminum on these ...

So here are the photos. That bigger one is quite deep.
Yesterday it all got buttoned back up and fixing this issue of the bolt end rubbing on the engine oil cooler hose assembly and nearly punching a hole through was solved a bit differently that I had envisioned.

My first try was with using two washers and a slightly shorter bolt.
To test this I then pushed on the belly pan near that spot and it hit immediately and repeatedly.

There are three of these bolts along the front edge and another two identical ones at the rear corners.

Behind this front row are two thin sheet metal screws with fender washers. These are important to make certain they are in place. Without those that front portion of the pan flops up and down a lot and allows more movement of those front bolts.

Next are the two nuts with washers that go over the threaded studs on each side.

It is the outer two of the front three bolts that can potentially rub against the aluminum pipe. I experimented with differing lengths of bolts and ended up with ones on each end that are 1/2 the original length and yet provide plenty of threads to secure the panel 's leading edge. so 6mm x 12. The originals are 6mm x 24 and way too long.

When I did that no amount of pushing up and down on that belly pan produced that telltale metallic click of the bolt hitting the pipe.

Photos below of the original versus the replacement.
 
Attached Thumbnails Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6153.jpg  

Last edited by Staatsof; 05-27-2015 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:16 AM
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Default It's done ...

Now for the finish of the pipes repair and assembly. I ended up doing the best I could to clear out the corrosion of the newly supplied engine oil cooler hose assemblies. Apparently they all show up like that i.e. normal.

I got the tranny hose repair in place with the tube compression to AN male fitting on the transmission side and a slip over push-loc style hose with double clamps on the cooler side. It was too difficult to try and push that hose over the tranny side fittings with those still in the car.

A big thanks to 20004STR for coming up with these fittings though as I said I would get them from another vendor due to manufacturing tolerance issues. These looked great and were very reasonable but one of them wouldn't slip over a stock 1/2" tube.

So those along with a pair of push-loc female swivel style connectors completed the repair.

But .... and this is a big but ... the fitment of these hoses and the engine oil cooler hose assemblies in that very tight space was not so easy. Twice I thought I had everything adjusted so that with movement nothing would rub.

One of the tranny hose aluminum pieces on the cooler side as well as both oil cooler assemblies had to be tweaked in place after the the radiator fan was put in place. I think I got it done but it did require repeated adjustment, use of a crow bar from below and repeated adjustment of the top tranny oil cooler connection. I've posted some photos below.

If I were to do anything different I would put those compression fittings closer to the tranny like 2004STR did so that you'd also have the ability for a tranny flush but I didn't start out using them so my hoses were already cut to length.

The first four photos are the corrosion on the new cooler lines - they're all like that ...

The next set are highlighting some of the fitment issues where vibration and movement would cause interference. Particularly with the supercharger belt tensioner.

Nothing as delivered from Jaguar went in WO a fitment issue. This is just a very tight area with a lot going on. I also had to make adjustments on the bell pan bolts. The DCCV was also replaced at this time along with the two main radiator cooling hoses. Both serpentine belts and all idler & tensioner pulleys were replaced as well.
 
Attached Thumbnails Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6126.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6127.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6128.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6129.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6134.jpg  

Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6135.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6138.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6139.jpg   Engine oil and tranny oil cooler hoses leaking. FAQ-dscf6140.jpg  
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