Hello there,

Yesterday, I parked my jaguar. Today no start.
I mean I hear the cranking (smooth) but absolutely no single run.
The battery is not dead (cranking ok even the temperature here is far below 0 celsius) and almost new: 6 months.
I changed my alternator few months ago (thanks again for people here who helped me) and no start problems since then.
I checked the gas pump fuse (#17): not blown.
Checked obd2 errors: none
disconnected my battery for about 30 seconds and reconnected after: AM radio is playing ;-)
alarm (remote) goes on and off as expected.

Had some troubles 2 weeks ago with very low temperatures (minus 20 celsius): when remotely put the alarm - left button, the alarm went ON (alarmed) and closed the doors but 1 second later reopened the doors by itself. Had to use my keys to manually close the doors. Disappeared spontaneously 1 week ago.

I checked a little bit the net before asking my problem: some are pointing to an ECM failure. Just that ? One day ok, the other, dead ?
Before going too far ($$$), your ideas are welcome.
While waiting, I'm charging my battery...
Regards
Mike
S-type 2000 V6 3.0L

* UPDATE *

After I read more here, I did the hardware reset proposed by mike66:

I did it (BUT NOT the windows reset) without luck, still same problem.

 

I am no expert, but record the flash sequence of the security led and post results.....and do a search on security led flashing....the immobilizer may be on since you had a random occurrence before

 

Hmmm, didn't know about a flash sequence security... I suppose it's how the flashers behave while triggering the remote, right ?
Will search a little bit about this and post the result asap
Thanks again for the clue
Mike

 

The security LED is on top of the dashboard, near the base of the windshield, right in the middle. Details are in post #60 in this long, drawn-out thread:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...3/#post1876674


That post includes a link to a training manual with even more details. Watch this LED and tell us what it is doing. Here is how it's supposed to behave if all is good:

First, lock the car with the key fob. Press the lock button a second time to set the alarm system. The horn should chirp once. Watch the little red light at the center base of the windshield. It should flash once every 3 seconds or so (not sure of the exact time) to show the system is armed. Now press the key fob unlock button twice to unlock all the doors. The red light should go out. Now hop in the driver's seat and turn the key to ON (Not start yet). The red light should come on solid ONCE for about 3 seconds and then go out. If it flashes anything after that, you've got a stored fault.

 

Hi Karl,

I just did the flash security test and sadly, all went ok on this side. from the alarm chirp to the final shut off, all was absolutely following the rules.
Another problem self-added while trying this (or maybe along the day - not noticed): a warning message about the fuel level (too low).
Because of the non start yesterday, I added about 10l of premium gas (in case of: the fuel level needle was low, but didn't have any message).
Now, the small cat warns me about this fuel level low...
I didn't change the battery yet (charging) but I remember that when I had trouble with my alternator, thus draining my battery, I had a lot of warnings and leds (like, you know, a glowing christmas tree).
Maybe the battery is the culprit here, but it seems strange to me that a failed battery, but with enough energy to crank normally the motor (???), will be the reason. But with Jaguar, who knows ?
next update later.
Thanks a lot guys for your help
Mike

 

Btw Karl,
what could be happen if I leave the Jag without any battery for hours ?
will loose some needed info to start the car, even without my actual failures ?
Mike

 

Mike, strange as it seems, pre-start voltage is the key factor here, not the ability to crank the starter. We've had many instances of computer modules acting up (due to low pre-start voltage) even though the starter speed seemed normal.

I'm not saying to rush out and replace the battery, but definitely charge it fully and see what happens.

Also, it's probably time to run through some more basic troubleshooting steps. For example, check the fuel pressure at the injector rail. Hook up a gauge and see what you are getting. It's possible your fuel pump is not running. If so, don't just rush out and replace the fuel pump, either, but instead figure out why.

Let us know if anything changes with the battery fully charged, and after that, let us know what you're seeing for fuel pressure.

 

This won't hurt anything at all. The only issue is the fuel trims (and perhaps some other responses) will reset to default values. The engine may run a little rough until the relearning process is complete, usually a few drive cycles.

Don't forget the radio security code, but I think you already had that covered.

 

My $0.02 is a seized fuel pump. Check fuel pressure at rail w/ ignition in run position. Your looking for 40+ PSI.

Anything less plan on replacing your fuel pump.

 

Just hope it's not a bad relay for the fuel pump, or I would be truly insufferable:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...solved-213080/

 

Hi Everybody,

I put my fully charged battery: usual story (radio). alarm is ok.
Tried to start the cat: even the starter runs perfectly, no start at all. Even not a single sign of good will.
Checked of the fuses (trunk side, near the battery): all are OK

noticed this today: normally when you remotely open the card, it open the driver's door. If you second push it, it opens all doors (passenger and back doors).
Today: nothing. Alarm ON (ok), alarm Off (ok), driver's door relay clicked (ok). second click: nothing
I can't open the trunk with my remote either.
Maybe it's not that important but I prefer to give you what I noticed here.

I reach my limits here. Thank you for the fuel pressure check advice but I'll be unable to do this: I'm not that kind of car tech ;-)

I think my next step will be towing...

Feel free to share something if you have another "simple" task to check a little bit further without extra tools.
Thank you
Mike

 

Karl,
I read the nice story about the vilain relay and I'll swap my pump relay with an accessory to see what happend.
I liked your sense of humor about "flat tire => change relay"...
More news later
Mike

 

if your remote lost sync then maybe your immobilizer chip did too....if you cannot read jaguar specific codes then yes a tow to your trusted facility is your next step....

 

Hi scott,

even the tests (see previous answers) made with the remote (flashing sequence ok) were consistent ?
Mike

 

Relays rarely go bad on fuel pump circuits. Easy test would be to listen for the fuel pump when turning ignition on. Another test would be to unplug the fuel pump and test for voltage with ignition on.

If you have 10.5V your circuit is good and your pump is toast.

These pumps have a tendency of burning out, especially if you run your fuel level down below 1/4 tank.

I personally never let my tank run lower than 1/2 tank. The fuel keeps the pump cool.

The good news is the pump is rather easy to swap out from under the rear passenger seat. Use a 2 X 4 and a hammer to gently remove the retaining ring. Mark it to ensure you tighten it to the same spot and change the green ring gasket.

 

A few more low tech suggestions, based on limited tools and a possible lack of opposable thumbs:

Do you have a scanner? Or just a basic code reader? You had mentioned checking for OBD codes. A scanner goes more in-depth than a code reader, and can display live data, which is invaluable for troubleshooting.

So if you have a scanner, or can borrow one, look at the fuel pressure reading.

From your description of the flashing LED, it sounds like the security system is happy and has not inhibited the fuel pump.

Check if the fuel pump relay is getting a proper signal to supply power to the pump circuit. On early models, this is relay #7 near the battery. Put your finger on this relay and have a helper cycle the key from OFF to RUN. You should feel the relay click. Turn the key back to off and you should feel another click.

At the same time, listen for the pump as previously suggested. When the key is first turned to RUN, the pump is commanded on briefly to pressurize the fuel rail. If you can't hear it, sometimes the noise will seem kind of faint. Turn off the radio and lift up the bottom cushion of the back seat to hear the pump better. To lift up the cushion, undo the latches at the front edge. I think they slide to the side but am not positive. It's been a while.

Do you have a voltmeter, or can borrow one? You've mentioned charging the battery, but maybe the charger is not up to the task. A trickle charger won't cut it, you need something with at least a ten amp output to properly top off a run down battery. After the battery is fully charged, let it sit for about ten minutes and then measure the voltage. Anything less than 12.6v indicates a problem with the charger or the battery itself.

These quick tests should help steer you in the right direction. Keep us posted.

 

Hi,
Thank you for the tip. Tomorrow, I will disconnect the pump and see what's happend.
For the tank, I'm mostly in between. But sometimes, I admit it can go lower :-(

Mike

 

Hi Karl (and others fine helpers),

I have [car related] limited tools. I'm techy++ (mostly computers, home automation, woodworking, but ok, we have all our limits somewhere) so not afraid to test things. I have volt and ampmeter.
Weather is not nice for me those days: finished a flu and temperature is below minus 15 Celsius (5F), and of course, the Jag is outside... Not the best timing on earth for me...
I don't have a scanner, just obd2 reader with some apps (Torque, Car scanner) for live data like voltage, maf values, etc. Was enough until today ;-)

I'll remove/test the relay tomorrow, unplug it and test voltage. I'll make the click test.

About my battery, it was charged today with a 15A pulse charger. didn't received error codes (sulfated battery or unable to charge it) and it was fully charged after few hours (was low after all my cranking tests). Cranking was really normal, very smooth, like butter..
Writing this, I remember the feeling today was like cranking a car with the sparkplugs removed, a free movement without any opposition. Ok, it was just a feeling and nobody removed my sparkplugs.

So, will see tomorrow !
Mike

 

If you can read MAF data, I'm really surprised you can't see fuel pressure. Perhaps it's an option buried in some menu?

Another quick and dirty test for the fuel pump: Remove the cap from the injector fuel rail test port. It is very similar to the valve stem on a tire. Key in the OFF position. Hold a rag over this test port and depress the middle of the valve with a small screwdriver or similar. Fuel should spray out until all the pressure bleeds off, maybe three or four seconds. Release the valve so it closes again (spring-loaded). ​​​​Turn the key to RUN for a few seconds and back to OFF. The pump should run momentarily to re-pressurize the fuel rail. Check again for pressure at the test port.

If no pressure, then you've got to figure out why. Could be the pump is bad, not getting the command to run, clogged filter, etc.

If you get some pressure, that's not conclusive proof the pump is good. The pressure could be very low but you couldn't tell without a mechanical gauge or a sensor readout. But it would indicate the pump is getting the command to run.

Either way, that would give you an idea how best to proceed.

 

It can't be easy working in the cold but have you established that you are getting fuel to the plugs and that you have a spark? It's not clear if you have done the most basic checks.

The first thing I would do is remove a couple of plugs and check that you have not flooded the engine. If you have, at least we know there's fuel getting to the plug. You are working in extreme cold so no chance of the weather helping to dry things out.

If the first plug you remove is flooded it will be worth removing and drying more before attempting a restart. An alternative would be to see if the car will start with cold start spray in the intake. Even if it only fires and dies we know there is a spark. If you prefer, then crank the engine with a plug earthed to the block and see if there is a strong spark.

Cold kills batteries and you haven't said how old yours is. Do you have access to another battery from a fully functioning car?

Good luck and let us know how you get on.