Poly bushings - need quick answer as call in shop now!!
#1
Poly bushings - need quick answer as call in shop now!!
I read somewhere that the 19mm poly bushing would fit my X-TYPE front sway bar bushing but I can't seem to locate the thread again. I'm having my front lower control arms and struts replaced and ordered the 19mm poly bushing from Summit racing but my mechanic say they do not fit and that he would need to force them on! Have anyone installed these?
Last edited by jlpatton; 08-17-2015 at 01:12 PM. Reason: mis-spelled words
#2
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#4
Chances are if you didn't buy bushings specifically for the x type they won't just bolt on and fit perfectly. The front bushing mounts are a little odd in the way they are shaped, so even if the bar diameter is the same, they might not work.
In what world are poly bushings a downgrade? They last longer and they have less give which means the sway bar does a better job of working. The only down side is if they are not installed properly with the proper grease they can squeak.
In what world are poly bushings a downgrade? They last longer and they have less give which means the sway bar does a better job of working. The only down side is if they are not installed properly with the proper grease they can squeak.
#5
Chances are if you didn't buy bushings specifically for the x type they won't just bolt on and fit perfectly. The front bushing mounts are a little odd in the way they are shaped, so even if the bar diameter is the same, they might not work.
In what world are poly bushings a downgrade? They last longer and they have less give which means the sway bar does a better job of working. The only down side is if they are not installed properly with the proper grease they can squeak.
In what world are poly bushings a downgrade? They last longer and they have less give which means the sway bar does a better job of working. The only down side is if they are not installed properly with the proper grease they can squeak.
Going with poly on my XJR transformed it into an almost acceptable sports sedan and I haven't had a noise from any poly bush I installed. Plan on ordering a set for my front wishbones on the XK8 this fall as it is long over do.
As for 19mm bushing fitting. Yeah you need to order the right ones. You can make some universal stuff work (I have universal poly bushings on the rear of my xk but the fronts of the x type is a bit oddly shaped). Oh and don't forget to do the end links. If I remember right the x type uses ford contour end links (as do the rears of the xk8 and gen 1 xj8
#6
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Poly, contrary to common myth does not last longer. It breaks up in chunks in as little as 8-10 years as many people are now finding out, particularly with the cheap stuff from China flooding the market.
The 'downgrade' is indirectly related to the squeaking which can be sidestepped with lots of grease. Poly bushings must be allowed to slide over one or both mating surfaces. They must be 'loose' right out of the box. If not they'd destroy themselves in short order
Standard rubber bushings by design tightly grip in the inner and outer components they are mounted on. In a relaxed, neutral state they give a calculated amount of give to minimize the teeth rattling vibration some people mistake for 'ride improvement'. As the suspension component moves away from the neutral position the bushing material is put into torsion. This 'twist' firms up the bushing hardness substantially and actually allows less misalignment and deflection than a poly bushing under the same load.
OEMs knew this decades ago...................
The 'downgrade' is indirectly related to the squeaking which can be sidestepped with lots of grease. Poly bushings must be allowed to slide over one or both mating surfaces. They must be 'loose' right out of the box. If not they'd destroy themselves in short order
Standard rubber bushings by design tightly grip in the inner and outer components they are mounted on. In a relaxed, neutral state they give a calculated amount of give to minimize the teeth rattling vibration some people mistake for 'ride improvement'. As the suspension component moves away from the neutral position the bushing material is put into torsion. This 'twist' firms up the bushing hardness substantially and actually allows less misalignment and deflection than a poly bushing under the same load.
OEMs knew this decades ago...................
#7
Poly, contrary to common myth does not last longer. It breaks up in chunks in as little as 8-10 years as many people are now finding out, particularly with the cheap stuff from China flooding the market.
The 'downgrade' is indirectly related to the squeaking which can be sidestepped with lots of grease. Poly bushings must be allowed to slide over one or both mating surfaces. They must be 'loose' right out of the box. If not they'd destroy themselves in short order
Standard rubber bushings by design tightly grip in the inner and outer components they are mounted on. In a relaxed, neutral state they give a calculated amount of give to minimize the teeth rattling vibration some people mistake for 'ride improvement'. As the suspension component moves away from the neutral position the bushing material is put into torsion. This 'twist' firms up the bushing hardness substantially and actually allows less misalignment and deflection than a poly bushing under the same load.
OEMs knew this decades ago...................
The 'downgrade' is indirectly related to the squeaking which can be sidestepped with lots of grease. Poly bushings must be allowed to slide over one or both mating surfaces. They must be 'loose' right out of the box. If not they'd destroy themselves in short order
Standard rubber bushings by design tightly grip in the inner and outer components they are mounted on. In a relaxed, neutral state they give a calculated amount of give to minimize the teeth rattling vibration some people mistake for 'ride improvement'. As the suspension component moves away from the neutral position the bushing material is put into torsion. This 'twist' firms up the bushing hardness substantially and actually allows less misalignment and deflection than a poly bushing under the same load.
OEMs knew this decades ago...................
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#8
#9
Standard rubber bushings by design tightly grip in the inner and outer components they are mounted on. In a relaxed, neutral state they give a calculated amount of give to minimize the teeth rattling vibration some people mistake for 'ride improvement'. As the suspension component moves away from the neutral position the bushing material is put into torsion. This 'twist' firms up the bushing hardness substantially and actually allows less misalignment and deflection than a poly bushing under the same load.
OEMs knew this decades ago...................
OEMs knew this decades ago...................
where the OEM does not use bonded bushings in the first place.
Poly bushings are also well suited for steering rack mount bushings,
where again, the OEM uses non-bonded rubber bushings.
The problem with sweeping general statements is getting tripped
up by details.
++
Last edited by plums; 08-18-2015 at 06:27 AM.
#10
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Installing poly in locations such as a steering rack is the 1% exception acknowledged above
#11
Undersized bushings that "grip" the bar would cause it to bind, and suspension binding is something to be avoided, especially in the sway bars, so that doesn't make sense to me. Where are you getting all this information from? Of all the research I've done on Polly bushings I've never read any of these things. You are the first person to say stock rubber is better haha. I also feel I must point out that most suspension bushings, OEM rubber or polyurethane, have metal sleeve inserts in the center, which would negate this inner grip you are talking about. And of course, OEM parts are not always the very best they can be. Manufacturers often make compromises for cost as well as comfort and vehicle noise and vibration and that's the biggest reason for rubber verse polyurethane as OEM parts. There are also different hardness levels with polyurethane, and you can often get poly that's only slightly harder than the stock rubber, and keeping them lubricated properly (something that should be done regardless of the type of bushings) will help poly last longer and keep them from squeaking.
PS: I have full polyurethane in my x type (since when I got it the OEM rubber bushings were almost all shot after less than 10 years), aside from some rod ends on a few arms, and I don't have any squeaking problems. I can't comment on vibrations or ride harshness since between the rod ends, coilovers and huge sway bars my car is purposely stiff.
PS: I have full polyurethane in my x type (since when I got it the OEM rubber bushings were almost all shot after less than 10 years), aside from some rod ends on a few arms, and I don't have any squeaking problems. I can't comment on vibrations or ride harshness since between the rod ends, coilovers and huge sway bars my car is purposely stiff.
Last edited by Justink201; 08-18-2015 at 01:28 PM.
#12
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I'd suggest you do a little research on how stock OEM bushings actually work. If a rubber bushing were to slide as you imagine, it would be destroyed in minutes. Once you learn how a stock bushing actually increases spring rate on the suspension arm (or in this case sway bar) by being put in torsion you'll see that substituting a sliding poly bushing is a step backward.
It's funny how people that are so quick to pronounce an aftermarket piece as being an 'upgrade' frequently no idea how the stock OEM design functions...........
It's funny how people that are so quick to pronounce an aftermarket piece as being an 'upgrade' frequently no idea how the stock OEM design functions...........
#13
I'd suggest you do a little research on how stock OEM bushings actually work. If a rubber bushing were to slide as you imagine, it would be destroyed in minutes. Once you learn how a stock bushing actually increases spring rate on the suspension arm (or in this case sway bar) by being put in torsion you'll see that substituting a sliding poly bushing is a step backward.
It's funny how people that are so quick to pronounce an aftermarket piece as being an 'upgrade' frequently no idea how the stock OEM design functions...........
It's funny how people that are so quick to pronounce an aftermarket piece as being an 'upgrade' frequently no idea how the stock OEM design functions...........
#14
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You seem to have a fascination with people's backsides and squeaks. Might want to get some help with that, it's making you rather cranky and irritable.
Here's some reading for people that have their minds elsewhere:
Bushings: Rubber vs. Polyurethane
You'll see the principle of how the rubber bushing twists rather than slides. The link also goes into some detail (not relevant to a sway bar bushing) regarding other locations where a second dimension of deflection is introduced.
Pretty clever design.
Here's some reading for people that have their minds elsewhere:
Bushings: Rubber vs. Polyurethane
You'll see the principle of how the rubber bushing twists rather than slides. The link also goes into some detail (not relevant to a sway bar bushing) regarding other locations where a second dimension of deflection is introduced.
Pretty clever design.
Last edited by Mikey; 08-18-2015 at 06:32 PM.
#15
You seem to have a fascination with people's backsides and squeaks. Might want to get some help with that, it's making you rather cranky and irritable.
Here's some reading for people that have their minds elsewhere:
Bushings: Rubber vs. Polyurethane
You'll see the principle of how the rubber bushing twists rather than slides. The link also goes into some detail (not relevant to a sway bar bushing) regarding other locations where a second dimension of deflection is introduced.
Pretty clever design.
Here's some reading for people that have their minds elsewhere:
Bushings: Rubber vs. Polyurethane
You'll see the principle of how the rubber bushing twists rather than slides. The link also goes into some detail (not relevant to a sway bar bushing) regarding other locations where a second dimension of deflection is introduced.
Pretty clever design.
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