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x type REAR indicators not working

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  #1  
Old 09-03-2018, 09:24 AM
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Default x type REAR indicators not working

The REAR indicators only on my 2005 x type are not working when using the indicator stalk, the fronts and wing repeaters work fine.
If I use the hazzard switch then all indicators work fine.
 
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:02 AM
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Welcome to the forum Graham,

I've deleted your duplicate of this question from General Tech Help. This is the correct place to post technical questions about your model.

When you get a minute, please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some information about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.

Graham
 
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:01 PM
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Graham, based on what you are saying (ie, no turn signals in the rear, yet, they work when you put on the hazzards), the problem can only be the GEM Module. The turn signals are powered directly off of the GEM module and for it to work in Hazzard Mode, but not when applying the turn signal, that only can be an internal problem to the GEM Module. The turn signal input is the same for both the front and rear turn signals. So, you can rule out the multifunction stalk (which directly feeds to the GEM Module).

The only other potential is that I have seen cases where if you have the running lights on and then use the turn signals, they will not light due to a high resistance connection in the rear tail light plug. If you remove the plug on the tail lights, you will need to look at pin 6 for the left hand side and Pin 2 for the right hand side. If the pin looks brown/rusty, then that is most likely your problem. The same can be said about having your brake lights on or the rear fog lights. In short, you put too much current through the bad pin, it will cause all the lighting in the tail light to go dim. How much current it takes is very dependent on how bad your problem is. This should all be visible with a simple check of the rear lights, doing it in various conditions (ie, running lights on/off, brake lights on/off, etc).
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Graham, based on what you are saying (ie, no turn signals in the rear, yet, they work when you put on the hazzards), the problem can only be the GEM Module. The turn signals are powered directly off of the GEM module and for it to work in Hazzard Mode, but not when applying the turn signal, that only can be an internal problem to the GEM Module. The turn signal input is the same for both the front and rear turn signals. So, you can rule out the multifunction stalk (which directly feeds to the GEM Module).

The only other potential is that I have seen cases where if you have the running lights on and then use the turn signals, they will not light due to a high resistance connection in the rear tail light plug. If you remove the plug on the tail lights, you will need to look at pin 6 for the left hand side and Pin 2 for the right hand side. If the pin looks brown/rusty, then that is most likely your problem. The same can be said about having your brake lights on or the rear fog lights. In short, you put too much current through the bad pin, it will cause all the lighting in the tail light to go dim. How much current it takes is very dependent on how bad your problem is. This should all be visible with a simple check of the rear lights, doing it in various conditions (ie, running lights on/off, brake lights on/off, etc).

Sounds like it is the GEM Module then. When I have the driving lights on, rear fog lights on and hazzards they all work fine so that area seems OK. Where would I find the GEM module?

Many thanks for your help

Graham
 
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:15 PM
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Graham, it will be under the dash, tucked in the footwell area, behind the plastic trim there. Not sure if it is on the left side or right side. I know in the US, It is in the left footwell area (ie, under the steering wheel). Not sure where it may be in a right hand drive car without looking at the diagrams (I have them at home, but am currently at work).
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Graham, it will be under the dash, tucked in the footwell area, behind the plastic trim there. Not sure if it is on the left side or right side. I know in the US, It is in the left footwell area (ie, under the steering wheel). Not sure where it may be in a right hand drive car without looking at the diagrams (I have them at home, but am currently at work).
Many thanks, found it.
Would I need to get it reprogrammed or replaced. If I need to replace it can I simply replace that unit or are other bits linked to it?
Sorry for the stupid questions but I'm used to driving old air cooled beetle and campers so this is all new to me.

Graham
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 03:40 PM
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https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...module-148260/

Some say it was plug and play others say they had to program it with the SDD they had or those without went to dealer.

Another option if indeed it is the GEM is have it rebuilt.

Last suggestion, is main page download in stickies of the JTIS (workshop manual).

A General Electric Module (GEM) is a computer component in a Ford automobile that checks, regulates and operates electronic devices throughout the car. Typically in a car the GEM or BCM controls the power windows, power mirrors, air conditioning, immobilizer system, central locking, etc. The GEM or BCM communicates with other on-board computers via the carís vehicle bus, and its main application is controlling load drivers Ė actuating relays that in turn perform actions in the vehicle such as locking the doors or dimming the salon overhead lamp.

When electric devices first began being used in cars and trucks, each device was governed by a separate electric component. There was a module for the air-conditioning, a module for the interior lighting, a module for the door locks, and so forth. A body control module gathers all these separate modules under one system so that they function together instead of separately, a format easier to both manufacture and troubleshoot. Since the Body Control Module controls multiple things, when it fails, multiple things will not work or not work correctly.
 

Last edited by Dell Gailey; 09-05-2018 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:44 PM
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Graham, as for the programming bit or not, I would say to look at your current GEM module. Somewhere on it, you should see some numbers that being with "4x43-" There will most likely be 5 more digits and then another dash and then 2 letters. Those 2 letters are going to be your savior or your killer. These 2 letters are the version numbers. When you look for a new GEM module, find one that is the same version and you will be golden. Worst case, if you have say version "AD", then you should be able to use versions "AE" and up. If you go to say version "AC", you may run into issues as it will have older programming and it may not support all that you have. You get the same version, it should be a no-issue swap.
 
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Graham, as for the programming bit or not, I would say to look at your current GEM module. Somewhere on it, you should see some numbers that being with "4x43-" There will most likely be 5 more digits and then another dash and then 2 letters. Those 2 letters are going to be your savior or your killer. These 2 letters are the version numbers. When you look for a new GEM module, find one that is the same version and you will be golden. Worst case, if you have say version "AD", then you should be able to use versions "AE" and up. If you go to say version "AC", you may run into issues as it will have older programming and it may not support all that you have. You get the same version, it should be a no-issue swap.
Hi
I currently have an "AD" version in my car and I swapped it for a know working "AD" one and teh same issue is still there. Rear indicators do not work when indicating (fronts and side repeaters do) but they work fine when hazzards on?

Confused!!!!

Graham
 
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:30 AM
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Graham, you have me confused too. The wiring between the GEM module and the lights in the rear is the same wires for both hazards and turn signals. So, if they light with the hazards on, then we know all that wiring is good. You then have either a signal input to the GEM from the turn signal stalk or the hazard switch. Since you have the front lights working, that tells me that the turn signal stalk and wiring is good.

The only other thing that I have seen in the past is that if you put in the bulbs just so, it can raise hell. So, with this being said, I would say to pull the back plates off of both tail lights and remove all the bulbs from both plates and rest the plates in the trunk of the car. Now, add the turn signal bulbs first and see what you have at that point. If it is working as it should then, add the bulbs one at a time, checking between each bulb to figure out what is interfering. Having a bulb just a little twisted inside the bulb housing can create some funky problems.
 
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Graham, you have me confused too. The wiring between the GEM module and the lights in the rear is the same wires for both hazards and turn signals. So, if they light with the hazards on, then we know all that wiring is good. You then have either a signal input to the GEM from the turn signal stalk or the hazard switch. Since you have the front lights working, that tells me that the turn signal stalk and wiring is good.

The only other thing that I have seen in the past is that if you put in the bulbs just so, it can raise hell. So, with this being said, I would say to pull the back plates off of both tail lights and remove all the bulbs from both plates and rest the plates in the trunk of the car. Now, add the turn signal bulbs first and see what you have at that point. If it is working as it should then, add the bulbs one at a time, checking between each bulb to figure out what is interfering. Having a bulb just a little twisted inside the bulb housing can create some funky problems.

Tried this. Removed all bulbs and put in just indicators. Still working on hazzards but not when using indicators. Check power supply to bulb and there is power when using hazzards but none when indicating.
I am thinking GEM unit again. If I simply swapped it over then nothing changed. Would I need to have it reset of something. It worked perfectly well in donor car

 
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:10 AM
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Graham, nothing needs to be reset in the GEM. I would hate to say put in a third because it almost sounds like the issue you are having is destroying the GEM modules. I would try putting the GEM module into the donor car again (if possible) to see if the problem is in the GEM module of if we are somehow looking at a wiring issue.

WE may have to go with a different tactic and prove things good and then see what we have left at that point.
 
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:31 AM
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thermo
i see you covered this, but is it possible the turn signal stalk or wiring is bad?

did you adjust the steering wheel at all just before the lights stopped working?

have you tried the suspected bad GEM in the other car?

this link with more thermo checks may help?

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...working-46253/

 

Last edited by iownme; 09-11-2018 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:01 PM
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i had another thought which may help you narrow it down...
the hazard switch has priority over the turn signal, so when the hazards are on, the turn signal cant be on at the same time....what ,in the system, gives it the ability to do that, perhaps there is the issue.
could a faulty hazard light switch or relay give this symptom?

the switch has 2 electrical plugs on the back...check they are attached and tight
 

Last edited by iownme; 09-11-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:50 PM
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iownme, I do not see how it could be the wiring. The GEM Module powers the rear turn signals. So, if the lights are working in hazard mode, then you know that circuit is good from the GEM module all the way back to the bulbs. The GEM module takes a switch input from the hazard switch and the turn signal stalk and processes it inside the GEM to make the lights light accordingly. This is where I am getting confused. The GEM Module also uses the same switch contacts to power the front lights as it does the rear. So, if the fronts are working normally, then the rears should too. Hence why I was thinking the GEM Module was bad.
 
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:58 PM
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thermo. what do you think about post #14
 
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:01 PM
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iownme, I go back to how the switches feed into the circuit. The switches (both turn and hazard) are inputs to the GEM module. It is a yes or no signal (ie, you have a ground or you don't). The GEM module takes this yes/no signal and if it is a yes (ie, the switch grounds the wire), then it makes the lights flash. No ground, no flash. It isn't a turn signal because if you look at the turn signal outputs (ie, IP53-1 and IP53-3 from Fig 8.2 and 8.3), those 2 wires power both the front and rear turn signals. Since the front turn signals work, we know those lines through IP53-1/3 are good. Since all the turn signals work with the hazard switch, we know that is good. So, all that you are left with is the GEM module or some funny problem that I am not seeing. I have a hard time believing that the new GEM Module became bad just by installing it (the GEM module was proven working properly prior to being removed from the donor car).

This is where I am scratching my head, trying to understand what is going on. I feel like I am missing something and wish I could put my hands on the car to figure this out.
 
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:34 AM
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i want my hands on it too!

graham....where are you located?
 
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
Graham, nothing needs to be reset in the GEM. I would hate to say put in a third because it almost sounds like the issue you are having is destroying the GEM modules. I would try putting the GEM module into the donor car again (if possible) to see if the problem is in the GEM module of if we are somehow looking at a wiring issue.

WE may have to go with a different tactic and prove things good and then see what we have left at that point.
Got a 3rd one on order (got seller to check all working on indicators etc before removal) so will see how that goes
 
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by iownme View Post
i had another thought which may help you narrow it down...
the hazard switch has priority over the turn signal, so when the hazards are on, the turn signal cant be on at the same time....what ,in the system, gives it the ability to do that, perhaps there is the issue.
could a faulty hazard light switch or relay give this symptom?

the switch has 2 electrical plugs on the back...check they are attached and tight
I did wonder about the hazzard switch but thought that would effect the front indicators as well
 
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