Cascading problems at dealership
#1
05-12-2018, 04:51 PM
Cascading problems at dealership
Hello all,
2010 XF Premium ~110k miles
Sorry for the long post.
About 6 weeks ago my car started leaking coolant (smelled it then saw a few drips under the car, expansion tank was about half drained) so I took it to my local dealership. I was a “standby” customer so it took them a bit to diagnose it (about a week) then had to wait on parts (about a week) then the tech couldn’t get to it the following week, then the tech was away at training for a week and finally did the repair the following week (about a month at this point).
The leak was from some pipe routed behind the intake manifold so that had to be removed. Sorry I’m not super tech savvy with part names.
I got got the call that the car would be ready for pick up around 5pm so my wife and I headed to the dealership. Got a call just before we got there that on the test drive, the tech noticed a new problem and the car wasn’t ready. Turns out, the car was running rough and he suspected a bad injector. Took another week to confirm that I had 2 bad injectors and 2 going bad. Around this time I called for a status update and got told that the starter also failed.
Now, they’re quoting me about $3,200 for the injectors and about $900 for the starter... On top of the $1,200 for the coolant repair which I already approved.
This is all seems a little suspicious to me. The car was running great when I dropped it off so I can’t help but think the dealership messed something up while they were working on the coolant problem.
I guess my my questions are as follows:
1) is there anything that the dealership could have done to cause these problems? My only thought is either they damaged the wiring harnesses that runs behind the intake manifold during dissasembly or reassembly, or that they left the engine in a partially disassembled state for a few weeks and either contamination or corrosion occurred. Again, i’m no expert.
2) is there any responsibility on the dealership since it happened in their shop? I know many people experience new problems shortly after dealer performs work, but in this case the car never even left?
Sorry again for for the long post and I thank you in advance for any advice.
2010 XF Premium ~110k miles
Sorry for the long post.
About 6 weeks ago my car started leaking coolant (smelled it then saw a few drips under the car, expansion tank was about half drained) so I took it to my local dealership. I was a “standby” customer so it took them a bit to diagnose it (about a week) then had to wait on parts (about a week) then the tech couldn’t get to it the following week, then the tech was away at training for a week and finally did the repair the following week (about a month at this point).
The leak was from some pipe routed behind the intake manifold so that had to be removed. Sorry I’m not super tech savvy with part names.
I got got the call that the car would be ready for pick up around 5pm so my wife and I headed to the dealership. Got a call just before we got there that on the test drive, the tech noticed a new problem and the car wasn’t ready. Turns out, the car was running rough and he suspected a bad injector. Took another week to confirm that I had 2 bad injectors and 2 going bad. Around this time I called for a status update and got told that the starter also failed.
Now, they’re quoting me about $3,200 for the injectors and about $900 for the starter... On top of the $1,200 for the coolant repair which I already approved.
This is all seems a little suspicious to me. The car was running great when I dropped it off so I can’t help but think the dealership messed something up while they were working on the coolant problem.
I guess my my questions are as follows:
1) is there anything that the dealership could have done to cause these problems? My only thought is either they damaged the wiring harnesses that runs behind the intake manifold during dissasembly or reassembly, or that they left the engine in a partially disassembled state for a few weeks and either contamination or corrosion occurred. Again, i’m no expert.
2) is there any responsibility on the dealership since it happened in their shop? I know many people experience new problems shortly after dealer performs work, but in this case the car never even left?
Sorry again for for the long post and I thank you in advance for any advice.
#2
05-12-2018, 11:05 PM
Senior Member
#3
05-13-2018, 11:34 PM
Veteran Member
Well having done the rear cross over pipe change myself (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...9/#post1758337) and (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-187802/page2/) There are plenty of things the tech could have left undone that could be diagnosed as a faulty injector. I would ask for a copy of the fault codes the car should be throwing, to verify a fuel injector fault is present.
As far as the starter, new they are pricey (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...r-quit-189902/), but another option is to have yours rebuilt, which is what I did for a fraction of a new one ($100) with a 2 year warr. It actually starts faster and sounds better than when I bought the car. I would also as was said get Jag HQ in on it.
As far as the starter, new they are pricey (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...r-quit-189902/), but another option is to have yours rebuilt, which is what I did for a fraction of a new one ($100) with a 2 year warr. It actually starts faster and sounds better than when I bought the car. I would also as was said get Jag HQ in on it.
Last edited by Bigg Will; 05-13-2018 at 11:40 PM.
#4
05-14-2018, 11:25 AM
Veteran Member
#5
05-14-2018, 01:46 PM
I'm not 100% positive because it was over a month ago and again, I'm bad with terminology. Based on the above reply, Crossover pipe sounds familiar and the scope of work and area described seems to check with chart. I assume at least some of the cost is based on being on an Island.
#6
05-14-2018, 02:00 PM
Well having done the rear cross over pipe change myself (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...9/#post1758337) and (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-187802/page2/) There are plenty of things the tech could have left undone that could be diagnosed as a faulty injector. I would ask for a copy of the fault codes the car should be throwing, to verify a fuel injector fault is present.
As far as the starter, new they are pricey (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...r-quit-189902/), but another option is to have yours rebuilt, which is what I did for a fraction of a new one ($100) with a 2 year warr. It actually starts faster and sounds better than when I bought the car. I would also as was said get Jag HQ in on it.
As far as the starter, new they are pricey (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...r-quit-189902/), but another option is to have yours rebuilt, which is what I did for a fraction of a new one ($100) with a 2 year warr. It actually starts faster and sounds better than when I bought the car. I would also as was said get Jag HQ in on it.
to the point of fault codes, if there was a loose connection or disconnected wire, how would the codes differ from a typical failed injector?
I remember a few years back, I did a head gasket replacement on a LR discovery and forgot to connect one of the fuel injectors. Fault code I got was just for a "cylinder #6 Misfire" knowing what all I had just touched it was an easy check for me to make and correct but I'm curious how the jags might differ?
If I ok the dealership to continue with the repair, and the problem persists, would that be enough of a smoking gun for them to admit fault? I plan on reaching out to HQ but would like to have as much info as possible before I plea my case.
#7
05-14-2018, 11:42 PM
Veteran Member
Thank you so much for the reply...It is nice to hear that there is at least the POSSIBILITY that the dealer made a mistake. When I broached the topic with the dealership, I was told there was absolutely no way that the problems could be related.
to the point of fault codes, if there was a loose connection or disconnected wire, how would the codes differ from a typical failed injector?
I remember a few years back, I did a head gasket replacement on a LR discovery and forgot to connect one of the fuel injectors. Fault code I got was just for a "cylinder #6 Misfire" knowing what all I had just touched it was an easy check for me to make and correct but I'm curious how the jags might differ?
If I ok the dealership to continue with the repair, and the problem persists, would that be enough of a smoking gun for them to admit fault? I plan on reaching out to HQ but would like to have as much info as possible before I plea my case.
to the point of fault codes, if there was a loose connection or disconnected wire, how would the codes differ from a typical failed injector?
I remember a few years back, I did a head gasket replacement on a LR discovery and forgot to connect one of the fuel injectors. Fault code I got was just for a "cylinder #6 Misfire" knowing what all I had just touched it was an easy check for me to make and correct but I'm curious how the jags might differ?
If I ok the dealership to continue with the repair, and the problem persists, would that be enough of a smoking gun for them to admit fault? I plan on reaching out to HQ but would like to have as much info as possible before I plea my case.
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Jay Mackie (05-15-2018)
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#8
05-15-2018, 11:02 AM
this seems very odd to me. So the car was running fine before, then had some coolant leak but still ran fine? No reduced power warnings or anything?
I think the techs did not reinstall everything correctly. Or broke something while doing their repairs.
These were not problems your car was having before, and trust me, you would notice two bad injectors, the car would also notice and very much tell you about it. I had two go bad from a poorly milled head leaked coolant into 2 pistons.
I think the techs did not reinstall everything correctly. Or broke something while doing their repairs.
These were not problems your car was having before, and trust me, you would notice two bad injectors, the car would also notice and very much tell you about it. I had two go bad from a poorly milled head leaked coolant into 2 pistons.
#9
05-15-2018, 01:52 PM
this seems very odd to me. So the car was running fine before, then had some coolant leak but still ran fine? No reduced power warnings or anything?
I think the techs did not reinstall everything correctly. Or broke something while doing their repairs.
These were not problems your car was having before, and trust me, you would notice two bad injectors, the car would also notice and very much tell you about it. I had two go bad from a poorly milled head leaked coolant into 2 pistons.
I think the techs did not reinstall everything correctly. Or broke something while doing their repairs.
These were not problems your car was having before, and trust me, you would notice two bad injectors, the car would also notice and very much tell you about it. I had two go bad from a poorly milled head leaked coolant into 2 pistons.
#10
05-15-2018, 07:40 PM
Veteran Member
I have 2 of the XF Premiums that are the same engine as yours.
On both, I proactively replaced ALL of the plastic in the cooling systems and water pumps before they failed. Side note, if you just had the broken piece replaced for $1200, get ready to have more of those failures and $1200 bills because all of that plastic is under the same stress, which is why I did all of them for about $1000 in parts.
But back to the topic at hand, in the naturally aspirated engine, even with doing all of the plastic, at no point was I working on the injectors or coil packs. In fact, all of that stuff remained under their foam covers, which shows how far away I was from doing anything to them.
And the starter is worlds away from the cooling system.
So I don’t see how they could have damaged those items just fixing the common issue of a plastic cooling part failure.
Now you are crazy to go to a dealership for these non warranty repairs, and I wouldn’t put it past a dealership to say these things failed when they were ok to line their pockets. You should be going to a well rated independent Jag specialist, but even a good Ford mechanic would do well on these items since it’s a Ford engine.
On both, I proactively replaced ALL of the plastic in the cooling systems and water pumps before they failed. Side note, if you just had the broken piece replaced for $1200, get ready to have more of those failures and $1200 bills because all of that plastic is under the same stress, which is why I did all of them for about $1000 in parts.
But back to the topic at hand, in the naturally aspirated engine, even with doing all of the plastic, at no point was I working on the injectors or coil packs. In fact, all of that stuff remained under their foam covers, which shows how far away I was from doing anything to them.
And the starter is worlds away from the cooling system.
So I don’t see how they could have damaged those items just fixing the common issue of a plastic cooling part failure.
Now you are crazy to go to a dealership for these non warranty repairs, and I wouldn’t put it past a dealership to say these things failed when they were ok to line their pockets. You should be going to a well rated independent Jag specialist, but even a good Ford mechanic would do well on these items since it’s a Ford engine.
Last edited by lotusespritse; 05-16-2018 at 01:01 AM.
#11
05-16-2018, 12:27 AM
Senior Member
Good post for those who don't think these cars are money pits.
It sounds like it has a rough idle now that someone dared to disturb the delicate electrical/vacuum equilibrium of its beating heart. The dealer will never admit fault and you can't prove anything anyway, only offering a list of parts to be replaced with no guarantee to actually fix the problem. The cause can just be a loose harness plug or a $5 vacuum hose. But because of over-complicated design, it gives greedy and incompetent *******s a license to write themselves a blank check.
Get this car out of there and to a shop that knows their way around these drama queens
It sounds like it has a rough idle now that someone dared to disturb the delicate electrical/vacuum equilibrium of its beating heart. The dealer will never admit fault and you can't prove anything anyway, only offering a list of parts to be replaced with no guarantee to actually fix the problem. The cause can just be a loose harness plug or a $5 vacuum hose. But because of over-complicated design, it gives greedy and incompetent *******s a license to write themselves a blank check.
Get this car out of there and to a shop that knows their way around these drama queens
#13
05-16-2018, 08:09 AM
Veteran Member
Can you get a second opinion?
Maybe someone can recommend a good independent shop?
Any chance you could do part of it?
Taking the starter off to get it rebuilt should not be to hard?
I also vote to rebuild your factory unit if possible.
Just a lot to fix with only the dealer looking at it.
.
.
.
Maybe someone can recommend a good independent shop?
Any chance you could do part of it?
Taking the starter off to get it rebuilt should not be to hard?
I also vote to rebuild your factory unit if possible.
Just a lot to fix with only the dealer looking at it.
.
.
.
#14
05-16-2018, 09:46 AM
Veteran Member
Jaguar is definitely par for the course with cost of ownership in repairs as the car ages, and the same too with depreciation.
Your best option is a Lexus if you don't want to play in this game because you can't do the work yourself and don't want to pay for the high cost of repairs.
My XF's are super reliable and inexpensive to repair and keep trouble free because I keep them away from mechanics in general and I proactively change the known items to fail before they leave me on the side of the road or cause more expensive damage.
Last edited by lotusespritse; 05-16-2018 at 10:56 PM.
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#16
05-16-2018, 05:58 PM
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Yep, first rule of getting quotes on any car-related work is DO NOT tell them what others have diagnosed or guessed the problem as and definitely DO NOT tell them the amount you have been quoted by anyone else.
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