As the title states, I had good compression but today while frustrated about the crank bolt not loosening I decided to pull the oil filter, there is a LOT of metal shaving in there.



t appear that any made it past the filter but I fear it means the motor is shot.

 

Specifically what car and engine do you have?

Are you within the year range of 5.0 timing chain issues?

Have you heard any noise from the engine that was not normal?

 

2011 XF 5.0 161K miles It made the timing chain noise (its loose on passenger side)

 

Ok so you probably are in that range however at 161k miles I would have thought that a timing chain issue would have started earlier possibly?

It depends on where these shavings came from as to whether the engine is actually shot.

Whatever tho you need to find out where they are from and I do not know how you do that.

If it were me I would want to start with looking at the timing chain especially if the engine was noisy at the front.

 

It probably did, and the owner at the time just kept driving it with the timing chain problem and then it was sold off cheap to the OP as project car. It may be more of a project than it is worth though at this point, so might need to sell it for parts. Won't know until you do a bunch more work to evaluate the internals of the engine. If the engine needs a rebuild/replacement, now you are talking about the amount of money to buy one with lower miles that is running just fine.

 

5.0 engines used are not cheap.

 

Before going further, it may be wise to remove the oil sump pan and see if there is a corresponding amount of metal shavings there as well.

 

If you don't already have the Workshop Manual, here is a link to the X150 manual, since the engine service and repair is the same, it can be useful for diagnosis and tools needed:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbas72bks4...44939.pdf?dl=0

 

Thanks, they are suck fine metal shavings and so many it was strange, I have upper timing covers off and don't see metal. Still trying to figure out how to get the stupid rusty crank bolt off to see the lower portion. I could go ahead and pull oil pan. It was sold as "running" but obviously we have a different definition of that. It crazy how much the used 5.0's are and there are a ton of them so you figure people would lower the price. If it does need an engine I will just sell it off. It has a nice set of factory rims on it so that should help recover a bit. I'm about 4k into it so it shouldn't be too terrible of a hit.

 

You would probably be able to get something for the engine in that condition anyway.

I agree about the price on a used 5.0 where there are quite few out there. Same for boats on Cape Cod. There are 100s for sale and yet very high prices all over. Its like everyone selling has some sort of high price agreement.

 

Still trying to get the crank bolt off so I can see the bottom of the tensioners and chains. I ran the magnet in some of the valleys that i could get too and its picking up very minimal metal. Trying to figure where it came from looks like it's going to be fun. I just hate to go buy all the new timing stuff only to put it on and have a bad motor.

 

Or you could try official zip tie method, you just need blades and tensioners. See this thhread.

 

Oof. That metal in the oil is obviously no bueno, and there's a lot of it.

I guess from your replies you've had it running - could you hear any knocking or was it just timing noise? If there's no knocking then you may have avoided spun bearings, but to hope that e.g. the bearing faces (especially in the camshafts which don't have replaceable bearings/shells) are still in great shape is putting a lot of faith in that little oil filter.

If the bearings haven't spun, then the metal has to have come from somewhere - my suspicion would be the timing chain (the one making the noise) rattling around the front of the engine wearing burrs of aluminum off the block webbing and other nearby metal. It happened to my 2010 5.0 S/C, which was eventually destroyed by oil starvation spinning two conrod bearings when the oil level got too low. I rebuilt it, but it took far longer and cost far more than I'd have liked - prices of 5.0 S/C engines have dropped since then but still fetch a reasonably large premium when you consider e.g. the price of a Ford Racing crate engine, and that really a used engine comes with very little guarantee as to it's true condition. Then again, rebuilding the bottom end - if that were required - is not a particularly simple process and not covered in the service manual, whereas an engine swap is.

The problem is - whichever route you decide to take you'll likely have to pull the engine if you want the job done properly. Even if you decided that you could probably get away with just flushing the oil and not bothering to replace main/rod bearings, in order to get all the metal out that's not supposed to be in the engine there I'd be wanting to drop the oil pan extension as well as the oil pan - and that's a bitch of a job with the engine in situ and requires transmission removal regardless as you need to remove the rear crank seal plate to do it, as well as a whole lot of other bits.

I guess you could take a gamble - given how much you have in the car anyway - just draining oil, replacing timing tensioners/guides/chains, and refilling/draining oil/changing filter a couple of times, and pray that all the metal was flushed out. But like I say, that's a lot of metal.

 

I'm with davetibbs, there be dragons there...
Part the car out and shop for something else.
==================================================
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '15 XF (X250) Portfolio AWD
Jaguar - making mechanics out of customers since 1935

 

What the hexk, if you have time do a flush like Davetibbs is suggesting, Low cost alternative and run it if i dies its on its last legs anyhow

 

I ran a magnet down the return of the oil filter location and was not getting metal, I was thinking its from timing flapping around. Still trying to get this crank bolt off to see. I may try and low ball some of these engines on ebay that have been sitting on there for quite some time and see if I get any bites. I guess you're right with the flush and run it until it does as its already looking like it might be dead. Swapping the engine is not a big deal for me but like it was stated you never really know what kind of shape they are in. Do i stand a reasonable chance to get most of the money i've got in it back? (4K) I don't know what they go for in "need an engine" shape

 

Are you aware that the 5.0L engine can have either RH or LH crank bolt?
Do you know how to tell the difference?
Hate to see you add to your problems by snapping that bolt off!

Mr. Davetibbs has noted this before and I forgot how to tell?

What's most likely happened is your wearing into the Al. on the heads or front of the engine because of slack in the timing chains. Your filter looks like it full of AL. shavings to me. NOT steel?
Something like this Lincoln LS 3.9L V-8 engine. Your 5.0L has a different and improved tensioner system but the results of the tensioner failure is about the same.



Have you seen XJsss thread about what wears on the 5.0L? He did a very good job and the problem is a steel pin that runs on Al. providing tension to the rails of the tensioner system.
He has some great pictures too.
Spend some time reading it as this thread is chock full of real information about your problem.
Tensioners

.
.
.

 

Refer to page 973 of the Workshop Manual linked in post 8 above. From the manual regarding how to identify the crankshaft pulley bolt:

"CAUTION: Before removing the crankshaft
pulley bolt, note the numbers on the bolt head. If
the bolt head shows 10.9, the bolt must be
removed counter clockwise. If the bolt head shows
12.9, the bolt must be removed clockwise. Failure
to follow this instruction may result in damage to
the crankshaft."

 

Quoted from Dave Tibbs:"
Searching for posts while looking at rebuilding my XF 5.0 SC engine (don't ask) brought me across this thread.

I know it's old, but I have to reply - in my reading over the 5.0 workshop manual it's clear there were two types of crank pulley bolts used on the AJ133 engine - one is reverse-threaded, the other isn't. Amazing design, right?

You have to check what's printed on the bolt - if it has 10.9 printed on the head of the bolt, it must be removed counter-clockwise, and if it has 12.9 printed on the head, it must be removed clockwise.

People earlier mentioned the rust on the bolt but I rather suspect the mechanic got this one the wrong way round."

 

As a side note I saw a TSB that JLR issued for 2019 engines where the crankshaft bolt on a number of engines is prone to severe deterioration resulting in possible
engine damage.