I have a concern with brakes on my 2004 XJR that I thought to be a "feature", but turns out it could be a "bug".

The pedal has very long empty travel with almost nothing happening. Then suddenly the car slows down quite strongly. The brake force seems to be uneven depending on the speed, so you have to move the pedal to slow down smoothly. This affects the ride quality in a very bad. Combined with harsh tranny shifts I`m currently dealing with this makes the Jaguar experience mediocre at most.

So I consulted a few service people but they couldn`t come up with any solution, I hoped that this could be because of worn brakes. However, changing pads and rotors didn`t help, either.

Today I came across information regarding a recall of nearly 15,000 vehicles because of the issue I seem to be having. Here is some info:
Jaguar XJ Recall Information - Jaguar Recalls & Problems

Has anyone had similar problems? Did you do the recall service?

 

Why not just take it to the dealer and/or contact the dealer to see if you are eligible for the repair?

 

This is an issue that has been discussed many times on this forum. Best bet for you is to check the under tray and brake lines for corrosion. If the brake lines are leaking, you will experience the reduced brake performance you described.

Or it could be something else entirely.

 

XJR350,

It's a bit of a stretch for me to relate your brake problems to the recalls you posted. I'm not saying "impossible", but I am saying "unlikely".

If it were me, I would look to the brake fluid first followed by the brake pad material.

1. I would flush out the old brake fluid using a vacuum pump device. The old manual procedure is hard to get right. Old or non spec fluid is poison.

2.Lastly, I would suspect the brake pads. If you have ceramics - be aware that they aren't designed to operate properly until they come up to a given high temp. This sometimes gives unusual brake pedal feel. Cheep non spec pads of any type can give strange symptoms. BTW How many miles on your car?

Stay with it Bub. The brake system on these cars is not all that sophisticated.

 

I have new (not ceramic) pads and rear rotors. Replaced them recently. No effect on the pedal issue.
I will be taking steps in the order of balance between cost and successful solution probability. The repair under this recall has 0 cost/some probability. And the recall article does detail the exact symptoms I have, though surely there could be other reasons for it.
If this doesn`t solve the problem, I shall follow the advice I get here.

The car has 99992 km on it, I guess that`s around 60-65 k miles.

 

I doubt that you are suffering from that recall issue.
These cars do have a long and somewhat soft pedal feel.
I would check your fluid level and maybe change pads and bleed out the system.
Good Luck.

 

I'll bet you a vodka lunch that you are going to find an improperly bled system . We see this issue over and over on these pages. Less than artful manual brake bleeding produces long empty brake pedal. Best brake bleed procedure utilizes a vacuum fluid extraction device. Question your mechanic. Gently.
Do get back to us xjr350. We really do get into this stuff.

 

The recall target is still worth checking because a corrosion on a brakeline can cause the brakeline to have some "give". That contributes to the normal amount of slack in the hydraulic system that has to be taken up, leading to ... long pedal travel.

In any case, the recall only calls for discarding the sound deadening material, and inspection of the brake lines in the immediate vicinity. Easy to do, and should be done, whether the dealer pays for it or not.

The problem is that the TSB may not apply in all markets as the published version is for US vehicles. Not that it shouldn't be done, but it may not have been issued in all markets.

 

It does sound like improperly bled brake lines.

 

I agree it's more than likely an improperly bled fluid system

 

Lol after 7 years they decided to recall? also hey guys, i hope everyones alright, I'm recovered and moved finally, i am now in virginia, I'm gonna go hit amc's jag tonight, since i love wrecking cars. Joke

 

when you have brake pedal fluid loss, you'll know it. You will have no brakes period. Chances are you have a problem in the master cylinder, the brake fluid needs to be flushed, The pads are low etc.... Not all 04 xjs were effected with the rusted lines. I did maybe 1 or 2 of those XJs on the recall list. The rest of them didn't need the lines replace. THe lines themselves have to be rusted. If the fittings are rusted then they are fine, the pad the lines are sitting in has to be removed. It absorbs water, which causes the problem. The recall came out 2 years ago, not "7 years later." I would suspect something else.

 

Well if it is the master I have one new in the box for half price.

 

Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

I do not quite understand the "improperly bled brake system" expression. Could someone please explain this in other words?

I had the car examined under this recall. The dealr said that the brake lines are ok and don`t need changing. I also had the brake fluid changed for a reasonable price.

There is some effect, however not to the extent that I wished. The most annoying thing is non-informativeness of the brake pedal, which is most evident in traffic jams when you are often braking from low speed. The pedal goes down with almost no feedback or slowing down and 1-2 cm later the car immediately stops still with no feedback from the pedal. It`s almost impossible to feel the moment the brakes start working due to no feedback.

On the freeway, however, the brake feel and feedback have got better and are quite ok now.

My other car is a BMW Z4 and I must say there is a huge difference between these two cars brakes, and in terms of feedback and slowing down EXACTLY like you want, the Z4 is miles ahead.

 

Ok, it can be tough to get air out of the system( if this is the issue ) on these cars, sometimes taking repeated bleeds to burp that hidden air pocket.
If this is not your problem it may well be that you have a bad master cylinder, this is not common but could be the culprit of the problems you have.
Then again this is really tough to diagnose without having a skilled tech work on the car.
Also, these cars do have a long and somewhat soft feel to the pedal as they left the factory.
Good luck, I know first hand what a pain it can be to get a good feeling pedal,I also know it is easy to become obsessed with the damned thing.

 

I`ve had the brake fluid change and lines checked under the Recall at a dealer, however, the issue remains: brakes are not informative and pedal has long empty travel. Moreover, despite new pads and disks, i`m having wheel vibration when braking, perhaps that`s the issue described in the 206-08 TSB:

Issue:
A customer may report a concern of, or a recurrence of vibration/shudder while braking,
despite an earlier occurrence of the problem being resolved with replacement brake discs
and brake linings.
Cause:
Vibration/shudder while braking is not necessarily caused by brake disc run-out (also
referred to as warped discs, or out-of-roundness of the discs). It can also be caused by low
levels of disc thickness variation (DTV) being present around the contact area of the brake
disc. DTV is caused when a vehicle with moderate levels of brake disc run-out, drives
many miles with very little braking activity, such as on a highway or freeway. The installation
angle of the replacement discs and the rubbing of the brake pad on the high areas of the
rotating brake disc when the brakes are not applied, cause the DTV.

I`m really lost at the empty brake issue, however.

 

Changing fluid and bleeding brakes is not that difficult to do correctly or incorrectly. Are you certain there is no air and they have been bled properly?

Possibly a booster or ABS issue?

 

I'm new to Jags but have done all the work on my cars for years. Is bleeding the brakes on a Jag any different than any other car?

 

Not really, Brembos have twice as many bleeder valves.