XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

Sun roof: Water drip and cover attachment

 
  #1  
Old 05-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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Default Sun roof: Water drip and cover attachment

Hit a snag while playing with the sunroof -- all my downloads from the forum for the roof have not pointed me in the correct direction.

After washing my 02 R I noticed the back section of the sunroof headliner was wet. I'm speaking of the smaller section that slides back when you open the roof. Knowing this rear section is part of the gutter system that catches water getting past the sunroof seal and understanding how to remove the larger front panel. I put the sunroof in the tilt position and took out the larger front panel ... thought you could see more. Guess the rear drains can't be cleaned w/o dropping the headliner? Also -- I forget how that rear sliding trim get reattached to to the sliding mechanism. Know if not careful and properly reattached it can jam the mechanism. I guess the small sliding panel directs water to each side and the water flows to the back drains?

I'm the original owner of this one and it needs a new headliner ... but, I want to reattach the rear trim panel so I don't damage the roof. Also, how to clean the drains?
 
  #2  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:51 PM
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The X300 and the X308 are IDENTICAL as far as the sliding roof is concerned.
There are TSBs (that nobody reads) for the faults and operation of the sliding roof on this forum and GUS has them on his site as well.

This subject has been discussed (beaten to death) on this forum so a search should yield lots of info.

The X308 TSBs will be in the 501-xx (BODY) section and the X300 TSBs will be in the 13 (BODY) section.

bob
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 06:42 AM
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Thanks motorcarman. The problem one encounters when going over the TSB's etc. The illustrations are not clear. The overall instructions not designed for one of repair in 20 years.

I spent well over an hour looking around. Many line items say .... "re-attach" ... well how? Most are focused on "problems" ... I'm not having any problem with the roof itself.

Also bought a 95 x300 new .. numerous sunroof problems. Jaguar had to replace the rails twice .. never got a warm fuzzing feeling using it. The inner panel fell off numerous times. But, I did get to see how it worked. Know to remove the six (6) screws holding the steel roof panel and it comes right off and then you can take out the smaller sliding panel. I really don't want to go that far today ...my memory was the small back sliding panel was positioned so the catch went into the opening of the steel panel as it dropped down and the mechanism grabbed the panel.

This 02 has never had any sunroof issues -- my other 02 is a garage queen and I had the headliner replaced a few years ago. I never touched it. Unfortunately, the place that did the headliner closed and my long time contact at the local dealer (parts manager) died a while back .. not sure where to take this one.

Did not see anything about how to clean the rear drains.
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:31 AM
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The rear drains are located too far back to be accessible without removing the headliner.

bob
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:45 AM
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Thanks for the drain info motorcarman ---- will make part of my overall headliner fix ... I'm also going to replace the windshield and my rear mirror needs to be fixed (the plastic holding the ball)

Two Questions:

1. That smaller section of the sunroof cover. How does it reattach -- it looks like that bar/lever on each side of the track assembly (the one with the small pin) should catch the panel on each side and push and pull it as the roof moves. Do you just position the panel and the mechanism catches it when it moves ..or do I need to do something? The unit was working fine -- I just took the large cover off to inspect.

2. Since I'm getting water past the seal -- maybe I should replace. Is this a DIY -- or do you have to use the little tool to crimp the gasket in place?

Thanks
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:33 AM
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This whole thread below has a lot of info... I posted some pictures of how everything should look attached together in post 27. I've heard of making a small C clip out of the spring steel strips in old style windshield wipers as a retention aid for those, need to do that soon for mine to prevent the rear section coming loose.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...2/#post1614059

I think the seal will naturally let some water past, if it is leaking into the headliner it probably means the drains are clogged, misaligned, or leaking internally (less likely).
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:55 AM
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I did see that thread ..... what I'm trying to understand is the connection to the smaller panel. for what ever reason the pivot arms little pin does not grab the hole. Does the larger panel have to be in place for some reason for the system to work (does not look that way). want to leave the big panel off .. attach the small so nothing happens to it while I'm getting ready to do the headliner.
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:19 PM
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The spring loaded arms seem to naturally 'warp' over time and the pin comes loose from the plastic guide. The plastic guide is what the cross tray mounts in.
There is a spring clip that holds the rear trim piece (it also acts as a water cross tray) to the plastic guide in the track.

Many people have tried to bend the cast arms....Don't try to bend the arms. They WILL break before they bend.
You can bend the fulcrum pin that mounts the arm to the 'tilt-slide' mechanism. I simply place the arm in the VERTICAL position and grab the arm at the fulcrum point with pliers and 'tweak' the pin until the arm is parallel with the track again.

The arm will now stay in the plastic track guide.

bob
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:24 PM
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Mototcarman -- So, I assumed correctly the pin of the arm goes into the plastic clip of the small trim tray. I did not see any spring .... that holds the small trim/tray in place. ??


How about that gasket .. Is it DIY ? ... I asked back in post #5

I see where you talk of bending the pin. Doing this from above w/ the steel panel removed.

Better make this all part of a headliner -- sun roof refresh.
 
  #10  
Old 05-18-2019, 03:42 PM
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The Sliding Roof seal is not meant to seal out water. (it slows water down) The seal is mostly a wind seal.
Water will creep past the seal and the trays are designed to channel the water to the drain tubes.

Jaguar issues a special tool to install the seal. (JD200)

I have done this just ONCE and I never want to do it again!!

It is tedious.

Unless the seal is severely deteriorated, I would just leave it.

Here are some TSBs for the X300 but the sliding roof parts are the same as the X308.

bob
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by yeldogt View Post
Mototcarman -- So, I assumed correctly the pin of the arm goes into the plastic clip of the small trim tray. I did not see any spring .... that holds the small trim/tray in place. ??
The pin on the end of the arm goes into the plastic guide in the track. The plastic sliding guide in the track holds the rear trim piece that is also the cross part of the drain system.

The interior trim/cross drain has small 'C' shaped spring clips to hold the interior trim to the black plastic guides in the left and right tracks. (sometimes they are missing from a previous repair?)

When the cast arm becomes warped, the end of the pin will NOT stay in the plastic sliding guide.
The guide (with the trim) does not traverse with the rest of the 'tilt/slide' assy in the track. It usually lodges in the back of the track assy.

If you bend the fulcrum pin on the arm so that the arm is parallel with the track, the END pin will stay engaged in the plastic sliding guide.

bob
 
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:57 AM
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After spending some time looking around .. figured it out (I think). My arms that hold/ move the rear tray must have warped a tiny bit -- that's why they must have slipped out of the holes while I was removing the larger roof trim panel. Looking at all the diagrams -- since the pins don't grab correctly -- thought I was missing something. Looking at them they certainly present as being "metal" enough to be bent .. I'm glad this has been pointed out as being something you don't want to do.

While I can't see them -- the small clips that motorcarman talks of holding the small tray .. must still be there. As the tray is held in place -- I really did not want to play with it any more. Was able to move the small tray a bit and now both arms are in the holes.

Guess the small clips are visable once the steel roof is removed? Since the roof is in fine working condition I don't want to damage anythng

I'm trying to decide what's the best way to attempt to clean the rear drains? My plan to replace the windshield at the same time was for the headliner to be an easy in and out -- but, this has to be done at the shop. I'm not sure how to clean the drains if not able to get the headliner out of the car.

On another note. I can now see why I had so many problems with my X300 sunroof. I'm sure now the problem was the arms -- one came undone and the unit jammed going back. It happened more than once. Unit also snapped something when going into tilt. Was a real mess. Jaguar should have a tiny clip to hold that in place
 

Last edited by yeldogt; 05-19-2019 at 09:25 AM.
  #13  
Old 05-19-2019, 08:34 AM
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You don't need to REMOVE the headliner, only need to drop it onto the seats and lean in through a back door to disconnect and clean the tubes.

Be careful with the tube-to-track connection as the track is aluminum but the drain channel is plastic that is riveted to the track.

You can remove the entire sliding roof assy with the headliner resting on the reclined seatbacks if you want to repair outside the car.

bob
 
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Old 05-19-2019, 09:31 AM
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motorcarman you have been a great help. Think I will drop the headliner and take a look. I would rather do it myself ..vs having the possibility of a part snap. I can just partially reinstall.

About removing: Guess I'm afraid of the sunroof ... remembering my X300 . The mechanics had nothing great to say about them and did not like working on them
 
 
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