Can someone, kindly, help me identify a good drop in or "plug-n-play" Air Conditioning complete kit or system for my Daimler Double Six 1992 (series III) with compressor, filter, condensator, expansion valve, hoses, connectors and mounting brackets?
Please first read this post where I explain why Fenair is might not perform as required. Thank you in advance for your time and expertise.
My 85 SIII (6), at highway speeds of 60-70mph, once settled down, on Auto, set to 70deg. F, maintains a center vent outlet temp. of 45 F - 54 F. Outside temps of 77 F- 90 F. I really can't complain. If I set it to min (65 F), it would probably go lower, but never tried it.
So, other than the somewhat loud fans at high speed and the relatively poor airflow from the ancient fan units, I would recommend getting the Delanair operating correctly and keeping it.
I'm sure some modern squirrel cage fan could be swapped in. If anyone knows of one, I'd love to hear about it.
Ian
My 85 SIII (6), at highway speeds of 60-70mph, once settled down, on Auto, set to 70deg. F, maintains a center vent outlet temp. of 45 F - 54 F. Outside temps of 77 F- 90 F. I really can't complain. If I set it to min (65 F), it would probably go lower, but never tried it.
Your temperatures at the vent are only slightly higher than a modern Fiat Panda: @ 85*F outside temp, i recorded 44*F at the vents. The Fenair representative, besides being rude, would not commit that his system would deliver those temperatures and refused to sell the system because I had too high expectations! A classic car restorer had warned me to ask for vent output temp guarantee as one of his clients complained that the Fenair system would not deliver 44*F at the vents in high outside temperatures and suggested that I, either convert to the old gas (iilegal), or ask for output temp guarantee.
Anyway, the old components are available but I was hoping to find something more modern and better performing with the new gas as the original compressor and components were designed for an other gas.
The Fenair representative, besides being rude, would not commit that his system would deliver those temperatures and refused to sell the system because I had too high expectations!
It doesn't sound like he was being rude, but rather that he was responding to an unreasonable expectation.
The only person that can make this guarantee is you, if you're prepared to rip everything out from under the dash, replace all the switches and seal, seal the HVAC unit and all the vents, replace the evaporator and condenser, compressor, drier and expansion valve, then upgrade the alternator and run huge electric fans. Even then, the system may not meet your expectations as environmental (traffic condition, weather conditions etc.) can affect that temps.Your classic car restorer friend is an idiot for putting this idea in your mind. Ask him if he will guarantee that after he restores a car, it will never rust or overheat again, under any circumstances.
My ’79 series III has center vent temp in the mid-30s with an outside air temp of 85 with a ton of humility. And it is using the new 134A refrigerant. But my secret is I have switches which let me force the system to recirculate the air and another one to completely shut the heater coil valve.
It doesn't sound like he was being rude, but rather that he was responding to an unreasonable expectation ... CUT ... Your classic car restorer friend is an idiot for putting this idea in your mind. Ask him if he will guarantee that after he restores a car, it will never rust or overheat again, under any circumstances.
Trust me, his email was rude, but that is totally irrelevant here because he did not offend me, he only exposed his unprofessional manners and I am concerned with efficiency, not manners.
The classic car restorer in question does offer a one year warranty for his work and that is EXACTLY why he is reluctant to use a Fenair system. It failed to deliver temperature on an other client's XJ and he is researching for a better system. This is exactly why I am asking for help in this forum.
Also Mengatto, in Florence, another restorer, guarantees the output temperature, at vents, with his set up. Menegatto uses a US produced setup, (with alluminium components, if I remember correctly) and a one year warranty on all his work. Including output temperatures, at the vent.
And also Ghost Motors, in Sevenoaks, UK, the same. I am considering installing an A/C system in a 1960 classic, that he is restoring for me, and I asked him if he could guarantee the output temperature at vents. He would. And his warranty is 6 months and 6,000 miles.
It is quite common to guarantee one's components, when one is confident of the quality of his products.
The usual parameter is that @ 30*C the vents must output 6.5*C. My Fiat Panda delivers this performance and I do not think that it is too much to ask.
My ’79 series III has center vent temp in the mid-30s with an outside air temp of 85 with a ton of humility. And it is using the new 134A refrigerant. But my secret is I have switches which let me force the system to recirculate the air and another one to completely shut the heater coil valve.
Mid 30s*F @ 85*F external? Wow! That's amazing! That is 1.7*C @ 29*C. Excellent! Unbelievable! This is a great modification! How complicated is it to perform? I would like to look into it.
I’ll be glad to share what I have done. The modifications are quick, easy, and inexpensive., the hard part is finding a spot to mount the toggle switches. Below I’ll give you the links to several resources. The first modification controls the fresh air flap in the factory Delanair system. One position of the switch let’s the Delanair do it's thing automatically; the other position forces the flap to the recirculate position. I leave it in automatic mode except on really cold or hot days and then I manually switch to recirculate to maximize the system’s efficiency.
The second modification manually controls the heater hot water valve. The stock valve is controlled with vacuum and basically has an open and a closed position. So I needed a vacuum valve that is controlled by a 12v signal with a toggle switch. The Delanaire system has the hot water valve open most of the time so, in essence open is the stock automatic setting but in hot weather I can force the valve closed which makes the air conditioner’s job much easier. So, as I mentioned in my previous post, on a very hot, humid day I can maximize the A/C efficiency.
BTW, there have been great advances in materials and design of A/C condensers. If your system is leaking refrigerant and you are going to open it to repair then I recommend investigating replacing the condenser with an efficient modern unit.
Here is a cool product that puts two toggle switches in the stock ashtray Link
Here is a document with instructions on six modifications to the factory system. I forget which one I used for the fresh air control but you can take you pick Link
I’ll be glad to share what I have done. The modifications are quick, easy, and inexpensive., ... CUT ... Hope this stuff helps. Jeff
Yep, it does! I can't wait to shoot rockets from the ashtray!
I am surprised that the Original system does not shut off the heater hot water valve when the temp setting is set below the outside temp and that there is no option to recycle. These are, both, standard on modern cars.
Regardless, your post is super helpful! I will certainly incorporate these modifications to the cabin side of the A/C. I would only ask if you could indicate which are the correct instructions, for the mechanic, that will obtain the recycle/external that you mentions out of the six... the document is here. I already bought the solenoid and the ash tray rocket launcher switch!
As for the condenser, I have already planned to buy a new Alicool one, together with the main unit, for the engine. Alicool sells a system that includes the shrouds and Spal electric fans.
I love this forum! I am a member of other car brands' forums, including one where you have to pay £200/year to be a member, but none are as helpful as this one! Great, practical, stuff that saves you money, saves you mistakes and adds efficiency!
Smiles from sunny (120*F in the shade, this summer) Italy!
In reading them over (I did the modifications years ago) I am using the one called Napoli's Mod to the Gardner Mod
"Instead of wiring the switch to cut out the ground, wire it to apply power to the solenoid. Then, whenever you want recirc, regardless of the mode the climate control system is in, you can get it. Essentially, the regular Gardner mod switch is OPEN/AUTO, while in this scheme it is OPEN/CLOSED - complete manual control of the recirc flap".
I usually leave it in fresh air mode unless it is very hot or very cold then I switch to recirculate. When I flip the switch I can hear this polite little "thump" as the flap opens or closes. On hot days I see about a 10*F drop in center vent temp when I go to recirculate.
Regarding the hot water solenoid, when the cars were new and the flap seals were good they didn't need this modification. But with the seals on the flaps dry and maybe the flap linkages out of adjustment this modification also gives me about 10*F drop while in A/C mode. So with both modifications that is how I get maximum cooling.
BTW, I like lots of air flow so I have the dashboard center vent blocked open so if the fan is on I feel lots of air coming out there. I cut a little wedge of wood and painted it flat black. Grip the plastic center vent and pull it straight out. Start the car and put it in maximum A/C and when the center vent flap opens put the little wedge in to keep it open all the time. I also have a little thermometer in that vent - that is how I can say with assurity what the temp drops are with the various modifications I have made.
Just an update to say that I have started work on the Daimler and my mechanic chose a new compressor for the A/C. We will also replace filter, condenser, expansion valve (although I'm a bit afraid) and all high pressure hoses.
