Dropping rear cage (IRS) tomorrow - what should I replace? U-joints?
#1
Dropping rear cage (IRS) tomorrow - what should I replace? U-joints?
Tomorrow morning I am going to drop the rear cage for service. I have up to 10 hours on a lift and someone to help me for a couple hours in the morning. So far, I have the new-to-me differential and brake hardware that is ready to go. (See pic below.)
Here is what I already have planned and/or ready to go:
*All rear differential seals have been changed
*Rear diff bearings have been inspected and changed as necessary
*Rear diff oil
*Strut assemblies (shocks + struts)
*Brake rotors, discs, and pads
*Cage mounts
*Brake hose
*Radius arm bushings (both large and small)
What else do I need to look for or possibly change that must or should be done with the IRS out of the car?
Also, how do I tell if my U-joints need replaced? They seem fine when I drive, but aside from that, I don't know how to test them.
Here is what I already have planned and/or ready to go:
*All rear differential seals have been changed
*Rear diff bearings have been inspected and changed as necessary
*Rear diff oil
*Strut assemblies (shocks + struts)
*Brake rotors, discs, and pads
*Cage mounts
*Brake hose
*Radius arm bushings (both large and small)
What else do I need to look for or possibly change that must or should be done with the IRS out of the car?
Also, how do I tell if my U-joints need replaced? They seem fine when I drive, but aside from that, I don't know how to test them.
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314jjwalls (10-01-2016)
#2
You pretty much got it covered I think.
The half shaft u/joints are NOT a known failure item, as they rotate a lot slower than the prop shaft. As long as they are greased regularly, they will go basically forever. My MK10 has 560000miles and still the same joints.
Basically grab the 2 sections of the shaft/joint and "feel" for play in the joint, or rough spots, that is a DEAD JOINT. It takes some practice to get the "feel", but it happens.
Some of the seals for the inner pivot shaft bearings might be a good idea, as they usually get damaged when knocking those shafts out. Some shims for those inner shaft mount brackets where they attach to the diff housing will also save some time, coz yours are probably long gone by now.
The half shaft u/joints are NOT a known failure item, as they rotate a lot slower than the prop shaft. As long as they are greased regularly, they will go basically forever. My MK10 has 560000miles and still the same joints.
Basically grab the 2 sections of the shaft/joint and "feel" for play in the joint, or rough spots, that is a DEAD JOINT. It takes some practice to get the "feel", but it happens.
Some of the seals for the inner pivot shaft bearings might be a good idea, as they usually get damaged when knocking those shafts out. Some shims for those inner shaft mount brackets where they attach to the diff housing will also save some time, coz yours are probably long gone by now.
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314jjwalls (10-01-2016)
#3
#4
Thanks guys! I will inspect the U-joints but I suspect their fine. I greased them when I got the car and greased them again when I recently started driving it, so I think it will be okay.
I was initially planning on thoroughly cleaning it and painting it everything, but due to time constraints I decided to make this a more functional process. I am just going to drop it, degrease the really filthy parts, and change anything that's worn out.
Yea, the vented rotors came out nice! Check out more on my website:
Dave's Jaguar XJ6 LS1 Swap
I was initially planning on thoroughly cleaning it and painting it everything, but due to time constraints I decided to make this a more functional process. I am just going to drop it, degrease the really filthy parts, and change anything that's worn out.
Yea, the vented rotors came out nice! Check out more on my website:
Dave's Jaguar XJ6 LS1 Swap
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yachtmanbuttson (08-08-2018)
#5
#6
I worked from about 9am today until about 7pm tonight and still did not get the IRS back in the car. Right now, the IRS is all back together and ready to go back in the car except for a couple brake lines. I might grind a little away from the lower control arms to give me 3/4" brakes some more clearance. I'm going back tomorrow morning to finish it up.
Also, I did not install the parking brake calipers. One of the pads separated from the metal backing plate, so I need to order a new set of pads. This is just find with me because I'd like to take a little extra time to go through the parking brake assembly to clean, grease, etc. I feel pretty confident that I'll be able to install them with the IRS installed.
I have some cool pics - I'll post them up later this weekend.
Also, I did not install the parking brake calipers. One of the pads separated from the metal backing plate, so I need to order a new set of pads. This is just find with me because I'd like to take a little extra time to go through the parking brake assembly to clean, grease, etc. I feel pretty confident that I'll be able to install them with the IRS installed.
I have some cool pics - I'll post them up later this weekend.
#7
I would replace the brake lines on the cage with cupronickel pipe (sometimes called Kunifer), plus the flexible too. Much more convenient to do now rather than when its all mounted back up.
Have you replaced the handbrake ratchet nuts and ratchet friction springs ? The serrations on the nuts get rounded off so the ratchet won't grip stopping the self adjust from working. In fact its probably best to examine and if necessary replace all the handbrake moving parts whilst you can see what you're doing. Pics below from a supplier website.
SNG Barratt - UK | Parts | Handbrake Ratchet / Adjusting Nut
SNG Barratt - UK | Parts | Ratchet friction spring rear brakes
Do the handbrake calipers move freely on their pivot pins ? Make sure they do or it'll never work properly.
Have you replaced the handbrake ratchet nuts and ratchet friction springs ? The serrations on the nuts get rounded off so the ratchet won't grip stopping the self adjust from working. In fact its probably best to examine and if necessary replace all the handbrake moving parts whilst you can see what you're doing. Pics below from a supplier website.
SNG Barratt - UK | Parts | Handbrake Ratchet / Adjusting Nut
SNG Barratt - UK | Parts | Ratchet friction spring rear brakes
Do the handbrake calipers move freely on their pivot pins ? Make sure they do or it'll never work properly.
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#8
Consider replacing....
Dont forget the exhaust hangers. The rubber is probably toast by now. The u-joints will be knotchy when you move them by hand. They should articulate smoothly. Autozone stocks sealed lifetime u-joints that don't need to be greased. Also consider remote bleeders. You can make them yourself or buy them on line.
#9
Thanks for all the good suggestions guys. The IRS is back in the car. It was a long process, however, I think I could do it faster a second time now that I have the experience.
The most frustrating part was the brake lines. It was largely a lack of experience on my part. I made new crossover lines for the rear calipers from 12" sections of steel line from Advance Auto. I didn't sufficiently tighten down the fittings (all four) that go into the calipers. As a result, they all leaked and I had to tighten them while the cage was in the car. The outside lines weren't bad, but the inside lines were difficult. I wound up using a crowsfoot and a hammer at one point to get that little extra bit when the wrench would not fit.
So far here are the results: The back of the car is stiffer with the KYB shocks and King springs (1.25" lower, 20% stiffer.) It's not as dramatic as I thought it would be. The front still has four bad ball joints and 25+ year old stock shocks and springs. Right now, the stiffer rear end is pushing the front of the car around. Also, my gut is telling me that the KYB + King springs will not be stiff enough for my taste. I will not know for sure until I finish up the front suspension and put some good wheels and tires on the car. However, even doing the rear suspension test where you push down on the bumper and see how it comes up - the rear still seems really soft.
Regarding the parking brake - one of the parking brake friction pads broke when I was removing the differential, so I wound up not putting the parking brakes on at all. I am going to overhaul them when I get some time and put on with the IRS in the car. I think I will be able to do it by removing tie plate and rotating them up behind the calipers.
Regarding the Kunifer or NiCopp lines, I might have given them a try, but I didn't see any at Advance. The engineer in me was also a little skeptical about using a copper-rich tubing (+90%) above the rotors, which are essentially heat sinks, because of heat transfer to the fluid inside the tubes. That stuff seems great though - I'd love to give it a try in a different part of the car.
The most frustrating part was the brake lines. It was largely a lack of experience on my part. I made new crossover lines for the rear calipers from 12" sections of steel line from Advance Auto. I didn't sufficiently tighten down the fittings (all four) that go into the calipers. As a result, they all leaked and I had to tighten them while the cage was in the car. The outside lines weren't bad, but the inside lines were difficult. I wound up using a crowsfoot and a hammer at one point to get that little extra bit when the wrench would not fit.
So far here are the results: The back of the car is stiffer with the KYB shocks and King springs (1.25" lower, 20% stiffer.) It's not as dramatic as I thought it would be. The front still has four bad ball joints and 25+ year old stock shocks and springs. Right now, the stiffer rear end is pushing the front of the car around. Also, my gut is telling me that the KYB + King springs will not be stiff enough for my taste. I will not know for sure until I finish up the front suspension and put some good wheels and tires on the car. However, even doing the rear suspension test where you push down on the bumper and see how it comes up - the rear still seems really soft.
Regarding the parking brake - one of the parking brake friction pads broke when I was removing the differential, so I wound up not putting the parking brakes on at all. I am going to overhaul them when I get some time and put on with the IRS in the car. I think I will be able to do it by removing tie plate and rotating them up behind the calipers.
Regarding the Kunifer or NiCopp lines, I might have given them a try, but I didn't see any at Advance. The engineer in me was also a little skeptical about using a copper-rich tubing (+90%) above the rotors, which are essentially heat sinks, because of heat transfer to the fluid inside the tubes. That stuff seems great though - I'd love to give it a try in a different part of the car.
Last edited by FastKat; 11-03-2012 at 10:38 PM.
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314jjwalls (10-01-2016)
#10
Here is a short writeup and some pics on my website:
Dave's Jaguar XJ6 LS1 Swap (Scroll down to the end of the page for the IRS removal and installation.)
Dave's Jaguar XJ6 LS1 Swap (Scroll down to the end of the page for the IRS removal and installation.)
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someguywithajag (06-21-2018)
#11
I prefer the marshmallow "Air" ride in the rear, there's just no other car that feels like it. My '65 S type is stiffer, (more or less the same cage and IRS), but the XJ is in a class by itself.
I drove a Maserati and a Bentley Turbo recently, no way Jose, they felt like a rock and a hard place. I guess I'm just used to the Jaguar ride.
I drove a Maserati and a Bentley Turbo recently, no way Jose, they felt like a rock and a hard place. I guess I'm just used to the Jaguar ride.
#12
I prefer the marshmallow "Air" ride in the rear, there's just no other car that feels like it. My '65 S type is stiffer, (more or less the same cage and IRS), but the XJ is in a class by itself.
I drove a Maserati and a Bentley Turbo recently, no way Jose, they felt like a rock and a hard place. I guess I'm just used to the Jaguar ride.
I drove a Maserati and a Bentley Turbo recently, no way Jose, they felt like a rock and a hard place. I guess I'm just used to the Jaguar ride.
On the flip side, my daily driver is stable, responsive, and laser-sharp at high speeds. Emergency lane change at 75mph? No problem. The 18" Michelins dig in, dart you across the highway, and precisely turn you back into the next lane with plenty of stability and very little body roll. I wouldn't want to try that in my Jag though...
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314jjwalls (10-01-2016)
#13
I hope you don't end up with whiplash, a neck brace, and regular visits to your Chiropractor thanks to the KYB shocks while going through those road depressions.
just kiddin'! I had KYB's once in the past, you know, I fell for the advertising, "Buy 4 KYB's and get your Free Acre Lot On The Moon with our Limited time Offer", and they almost destroyed my suspension (that was another car and I was younger then).
just kiddin'! I had KYB's once in the past, you know, I fell for the advertising, "Buy 4 KYB's and get your Free Acre Lot On The Moon with our Limited time Offer", and they almost destroyed my suspension (that was another car and I was younger then).
#14
Need some help
Here is a short writeup and some pics on my website:
Dave's Jaguar XJ6 LS1 Swap (Scroll down to the end of the page for the IRS removal and installation.)
Dave's Jaguar XJ6 LS1 Swap (Scroll down to the end of the page for the IRS removal and installation.)
Thanks
#15
Having done this three times.. E-brake take the most time
Properly servicing the E-brakes, that takes the most time of all the job.. getting the needed parts on hand... cleaning and then adjusting them before the install.
Never tried to do them with the IRS in the car.. not sure if it is possible?
I have never had problems with the brakes lines, use proper flared wrenches to hold things. Rear hose is important to change (the exhaust rubber pieces if you are so unlucky to still have your exhaust exiting through the IRS cage.
Never tried to do them with the IRS in the car.. not sure if it is possible?
I have never had problems with the brakes lines, use proper flared wrenches to hold things. Rear hose is important to change (the exhaust rubber pieces if you are so unlucky to still have your exhaust exiting through the IRS cage.
Last edited by Roger Mabry; 07-29-2016 at 07:58 AM.
#16
I have KYBs on my 1983 455 Buick Electra, my old Astro Van,
and my Jag . always been happy... I use BF Goodrich Tires with them 7 inch wide rims.
I am not racing these barges,.. I am simply driving on civilized roads, at civilized speeds . Its a question of reality.. what do I use the vehicle for most of the time? Does it steer and track true? No wheel play, good steering bushings,tie rod ends, ball joints , power steering rack centered and not leaking...Good as it gets for me.
and my Jag . always been happy... I use BF Goodrich Tires with them 7 inch wide rims.
I am not racing these barges,.. I am simply driving on civilized roads, at civilized speeds . Its a question of reality.. what do I use the vehicle for most of the time? Does it steer and track true? No wheel play, good steering bushings,tie rod ends, ball joints , power steering rack centered and not leaking...Good as it gets for me.
#17
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The E-brakes can be installed with the IRS in the car. I know, I have done it. If you are not a patient person with a sense of humour don't attempt it.
I was waiting on the pins and brass fingers when I finished my rebuild so I decided I would give it a go when the parts arrived.
I fitted them over the rotors through the holes in the back of the IRS then rotated the calipers into position. Once mounted, when setting I a made plastic spacers to set the initial gap between the pads and rotors(since you can't get a real visual of the gap), with cable ties on the spacers to make for easy removal. I made the spacers from plastic bucket lids, the 10 litre industrial type of buckets.
I was waiting on the pins and brass fingers when I finished my rebuild so I decided I would give it a go when the parts arrived.
I fitted them over the rotors through the holes in the back of the IRS then rotated the calipers into position. Once mounted, when setting I a made plastic spacers to set the initial gap between the pads and rotors(since you can't get a real visual of the gap), with cable ties on the spacers to make for easy removal. I made the spacers from plastic bucket lids, the 10 litre industrial type of buckets.
Last edited by o1xjr; 07-29-2016 at 07:03 AM.
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Rickxj6 (07-29-2016)
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