XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

IGNITION!!

 
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Old 06-27-2016, 10:15 PM
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Default IGNITION!!

I got in Nix to go somewhere yesterday and the IGNITION light stayed on!! Bummer!

I know what that is, one of the diodes in the alternator has bit the dust. On the farm we used to have a stash of them and changed them out ***** nilly whenever a BATTERY or ALT light wouldn't go out on Start.

HA!! Now you gotta replace the whole alternator!

"No worries," husband said. "I have a spare out in the shed. It even came off a Jaguar I found on one of my many recreational trips to the wrecking yard!" So I didn't worry, I went to work this morning while he worked on the alternator (he speaks Electronics FAR more fluently than I do).

When I came back about 1:30pm I asked how things were going. He had managed to get the old alternator off and changed the fan on the prospective replacement with a high speed plastic fan rather than the metal one which is said to deform under high revs(?). He said we need to go to O'Reily's for testing and after I got lunch and cleaned up a bit I could drive him (his eyesight has failed to the point he doesn't drive on the open road anymore - it's a genetic defect which his sister also suffers; he can no longer see my face across the table).

So I drove him to the "local" O'Reily's (nothing is Local out here) to get a new regulator and have the alternator tested. It failed. I wasn't surprised (it was off a junker after all, and maybe the whole reason the car was scrapped) but husband was Seriously disappointed.

"Can you get another one? I want one for an 80s Camero, 94 amps," husband said (upgrading from 70someting amps).
"I'll have to call the warehouse in Anderson, the cut-off time is like right now (3pm) but if we make it we can have it here by 4 easily."
"Well, call them then, because we want to have this running!"

Guy makes the call.

"OK, I just caught the driver, she's putting it on the truck as we speak. It will be here at 4pm."

Off to do some errands and waste an hour or so, which included picking up a copy of husbands Favorite supper, Pizza and Snake (Murphy's Take'n'Bake + King Cobra mixed with Sierra Nevada Stout).

Tomorrow morning after I'm working, he will be hard at it replacing the alternator and Nix will be Bright and well illuminated once again.

Did I mention, husband speaks Electronics Much better than i do?
(';')
 
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Old 06-27-2016, 10:41 PM
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Well, I have to say, job 99% done simply by knowing the cause in the first place - experience pays, well done!!
 

Last edited by jagent; 06-28-2016 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 04:30 AM
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You got an AWESOME team there Elinor.

I know that eyesight issue, I got it also, passed down from Mum's side.

Mine is so-so at 66, but some days are worse than others. Night driving is definately NOT an option for me anymore.

I can still spot the wife, best sight on earth.

I like Electrickery talk also, "Red to Red, Black to Black, flick the switch and stand way back". If the smoke stays in, you have done well.
 

Last edited by Grant Francis; 06-28-2016 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 08:35 AM
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Electrickery ! A word that was coined way back by a Jag guy, I recall.
I found it so expressive that I adopted it for my vocabulary.


So, far, according to me, my eyes are reasonably OK. Not so much in agreement with my eye doc's fancy machinery?? But, I see all I need to see. Tis been a spell since I was on the road at night. I thought I was doing just fine. Stay within the white lies, and well back from the red lights! Been using my RX shades a lot in the bright sun. Precious things, these eyeballs. Wish I had taken better care of them. As in cheating on the arc welder. Much better mask now, but little need to use my HF MIG.


I've opened my share of those AC Delco alternators. Still have a jar full of new and used little parts. Probably includes a diode bridge or two. Would I fix one now, or just swap it out ? Hopefully, I'll not need to ponder that.


My "electronics" go back to a generator and a "cut out". An electro mechanical diode, so to speak. Generator turns, creates volts, coil closes points, current flows into the the system. Generator stops, points open, battery doesn't send volts to the generator and thence to ground. These early generators had a third moveable brush. Only way to vary output!! On long day light drives, too much could cook a battery. solution, turn on the head lights!!!


I'll stop, more than anyone wants to know nowadays.


Yay, Elinor and husband. Teamwork, the name of the game.
You too, Grant....


Carl
 
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:26 PM
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"Electrickery" was a word I first heard in Catweazle!


Electrics I don't have too much of a problem with having a degree in Physics and working in electronics for a long time. In the old days mechanics used to come to me when they had issue they couldn't resolve. One friend had a triumph Toledo he couldn't get to start. I looked checked everything, the engine turned over fine, had good spark, timing and fuel. It backfired through the carb so, having a brainwave, I took the HT lead off and told him to turn it over again and put my hand over the carb to feel the pressure. He had fitted a -ve earth starter to a +ve earth car so the engine was running backwards! Got the correct starter and away she went, luckily no damage was done to the internals.

Don't do modern cars, too many computers which are unworkable on and just diagnose and replace (and cost an arm and a leg). I like to take things apart!!
 
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Old 06-30-2016, 09:37 AM
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Woweee, that is one I've never crossed, engine cranking backwards!!!!


Jaguar and I went on errands yesterday. All worked just fine. Well,
in a darkish parking garage, no boot light. Should I seek a fix or ignore and as such eliminate a potential issue?


Carl
 
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:16 PM
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Default Alternator Saga

Sorry I'm so long getting back, this project has been, um, Interesting to say the least.

The following saga is an example of why Nix was off the road for 11 months for work that should have been completed in about 4.

The alternator we stayed around waiting for was a rebuilt from China and was reassembled incorrectly. The cooling fan was installed on the wrong frame so that air, intended to be drawn through the windings, merely went around the fan giving no cooling at all, or at least very little. Husband figured it was good for about a week given the Summer night load (AC and 4 halogen headlights) on the alternator before it had a melt down.

Notice the flat-nosed frame for the high efficiency cooling fan, and a raised ring just behind the fan. There is a corresponding ring on the fan that rides just inside the ring on the frame enhancing the air flow through the windings; a ducted fan as it were.



Below is the "normal" cooling fan, with a conical open frame, and a fan which can pull air from around itself, completely bypassing the windings if it wants to. (Murphy being who he is, it will want to.)



The rebuliders had put the high efficiency fan on the conical frame and sold it as a high efficiency alternator. A quick glance will make it plain why this arrangement won't work, because there's no interference ring (or whatever it's called) so the fan isn't ducted.

Husband was not pleased , and returned the alternator the next day before I could get a picture of it so you'll just have to use your imagination.

On that same trip to return the mis-assembled alternator he stopped by our favorite NAPA and ordered one from them, thinking, as they're a Real parts house they would have better suppliers.

In the meantime we've had a Massive and Nasty heat wave, along with the visit of one of his former co-workers and wife, now retired to Sun City, Arizona. So that blew another day.

Finally this morning, 4 days after starting this "simple repair," he was able to work on the project after I left. When I returned about 3pm he greeted me at the door with the news that it's ready for testing.

All's good!
(';')
 
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Old 07-01-2016, 03:00 AM
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Well done.
 
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Old 07-01-2016, 03:02 AM
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Elinor:


Very interesting!!! Corvairs used the AC Delco fan. But, Corvairs use a CCW engine. Any alternator does just fine in CW or CCW!! But, the
bent tin fans as in your second picture are finned accordingly.


Son and I had a "discussion" about that a few months ago. His classic
restified Chris Craft 25 'er is powered by a single ABC. Highly " "enhanced by him. After all, his business was performance engines for a spell. The AC DECO alternator is mounted backwards, so it spins CCW. A tin fan type. I say not good, he says, no issue, still cools??? Only in reverse as intended. So far, it works...


I do recall an accessory for the tin blades. A tin disc to close off the backside and make a fan as in you first picture.


Yeah, as I am in Norcal as well albeit a bit South of your digs, it sure was/is a heat wave... A bit cooler Wednesday and Thursday. "Wasted
time in the garage "rescuing a fan. Ugh, I mounted it backwards on the pedestal. Way off balance, it won't stand up. Back to the drawing board.. The Velcro tape method just might work... Slick, the local ACE hardware has an extensive selection. Gotta remember that, should be useful. My work shoes use Velcro in lieu of laces. Neat.
Just retired one horribly beat up pair. Another similar pair takes their
place.


Side bar: Odd, my speedo seems to have "fixed" it's built in error???
Going to market along a side street. Registering 30 MPH. Back side says that is about right???


Carl
 
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
Sorry I'm so long getting back, this project has been, um, Interesting to say the least.

The following saga is an example of why Nix was off the road for 11 months for work that should have been completed in about 4.

The alternator we stayed around waiting for was a rebuilt from China and was reassembled incorrectly. The cooling fan was installed on the wrong frame

Good job figuring out the problem. These things can be mystifying at times.

Last week I was working on a 1967 Plymouth GTX 426. Very nicely restored car but the charging system was wayyyyy over-charging. Almost 20v at the battery.

Cutting to the end of the chase the problem came down to mis-matched parts. The alternator was correct for the car but the voltage regulator and wiring were not. Easy fix ....but not being too familiar with 1967 Plymouth charging systems it took some head scratching and research before I discovered the mis-match.

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:31 AM
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External regulator? Probably electronic encased in plastic
as I recall MOPAR's wont. No fix or adjusting?


Way back when, they were electro mechanical with coils and points.
Much like a relay. In about 1950, I worked in a full service
station. We did light mechanical. My boss went to a night course and learned to adjust those early regulators. A neat llttle box
with meters and patch cords. Three coils as I recall to adjust by
bending a tab with the spring.


I've a couple r so those old generators. Hmm. but no regulators.
They are mere cores anyway. Why do I keep 'em? Nostalgia,
I guess...


Was going to use one on my Hot Rod, but decided on an alternator
and 12volt. Recalling slow cranks on the flat heads with high compression heads.... No start not uncommon on 6v....


Carl
 
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:05 PM
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Thanks, Guys,
Nothing is easy and straightforward anymore. On the farm we used to call in an order for such a part and be *Confident* they had the right one on the counter when someone picked it up. Maybe that's all changed in the time I've been gone but I don't think so or I would probably have heard about it.

With the 2 styles of alternator side by side it was easy to see the difference. Knowing how the plastic fan was supposed to work helped a Lot! I'm sure it was the original alternator from 1986, so I suppose 30 years' service isn't so bad.

Onward until the next thing breaks.
(';')
 
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Old 07-01-2016, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post

Onward until the next thing breaks.
(';')
Love it. That's our motto with these things, isn't it!
 
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