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Managed to get the plastic elbow out without breaking it, drained about 12 oz of old brake fluid out and reinserted the plastic elbow. All without spilling brake fluid all over the car (at least I think so).
More importantly, solved the conundrum of which daughter gets the Jag in my will.
The one who willingly pitched in and held her thumb over the open brake line while I refilled the reservoir is the clear winner!
I've found a couple of Photos which I hope may help to give you a bit more reassurance when you come to Bleed the 'Low Pressure Side' of the System which is basically just a gravity feed of Brake Fluid from the Reservoir to the Brake Pump
Where all you would be doing is pulling the Locking Pin by the Red Dot in the Photo and then Carefully working the Plastic Elbow up and down while at the same time pulling it out, where a squirt of WD40 might help things along
The only thing that could go wrong is that you snap the Plastic Elbow, so in order to try and prevent that, you just have to gently work it a little bit at a time, then as you start to pull the Elbow out you will see the Rubber 'O' ring on the end of this, that seals it into the Brake Pump
As soon as you pull the Elbow out of the Brake Pump, Brake Fluid will start running out (which is what you want to happen) as you want the Brake Fluid to Run Clear with all the Air Bubbles out
It won't be under pressure but all the same it could make a bit of a mess, so stuff plenty of rag all around it to keep it away from the Paint Work as if any Brake Fluid gets on the Paint it will strip it in an instant! so keep a Bucket of Soapy Water Handy to sluice down any accidental spills
Nothing Bad should happen and you could always put your finger over the open end of the Plastic Elbow to Stop the Flow if you feel you need to control it or want to Stop the Flow for any reason
Then while the Brake Fluid is running Clear with No Air Bubbles in sight, put the Elbow back in the Brake Pump and Lock it in place with the Pin
As you can see in the Photos, I made a Tin Foil Channel, to redirect the Brake Fluid that will come running out into a Container underneath the Car for later disposal and I also Sprayed some WD40 all around that area for some extra protection against Brake Fluid Spills
As you are pulling out that Elbow from the Brake Pump, then letting Brake Fluid run out until it runs Clear (with No Air Bubbles) then putting that Elbow back in the Brake Pump, while the Brake Fluid is still Flowing, in other words disconnecting and then reconnecting it 'on the fly'
While I know it might sound a bit Scary if you have never done this before, just take your time and the whole thing should be drama free and just keep in mind you can always put your finger over the end of the Elbow to stop the flow if you need to
Don't let the Reservoir run out of Fluid, or you will have to start all over again
Now you can get to the Fun Part which is Bleeding the Rear Brakes which Paul Ptjs is the expert at and no doubt will guide you through the process
Aha, now I see why you capitalized “Fun Part.” How the @$#% am I supposed to get a wrench on these bleed nipples, much less be able to turn the wrench?!?!? They are more closely guarded than Fort Knox!
What sadist put this here? And this one is corroded, to boot!
Please tell me that I am mistaken and that the these are not the bleed nipples and I am overlooking something is much more conveniently placed.
In all seriousness, can I skip bleeding the rear brakes, bleed the fronts only, and be able to safely drive the car to a garage to have them bleed them (following Paul’s procedure)?
Or have I so thoroughly screwed the pooch by getting air in the low pressure side that I need to man up and try to bleed them myself?
On the plus side, at least the pads look in good condition...
You dont have a master cylinder per se on your car. The complex Teves ABS system uses an actuator unit and a small chamber at the front of thst unit acts as a master cylinder. In my experience, the actuator unit almost never fails. Faults in the system are always somewhere else in the system.
Please tell me that I am mistaken and that the these are not the bleed nipples and I am overlooking something is much more conveniently placed..
Those are the bleed nipples. I use a small ring end wrench to go over the nipple and there is usually just enough room to turn it. I can't remember if there is quite enough space to get on top with a 1/4" drive ratchet and socket to at least crack the nipples open. Then you can use the ring end wrench.
Those are the bleed nipples. I use a small ring end wrench to go over the nipple and there is usually just enough room to turn it. I can't remember if there is quite enough space to get on top with a 1/4" drive ratchet and socket to at least crack the nipples open. Then you can use the ring end wrench.
Exactly as Jag says, Hedman... Remember,,, kids have smaller hands AND she is gunna be the owner someday as you said, might as well get her under there and do the bleeding, lolololololololol...
Seriously tho, you're on the right track. It's tough up there. For the future Google a company called fossway (I think that's how it's spelled) and the they sell a set of speed bleeders that make bleeding remote, from just near the rear wheels without even using a jack...
The HOPE is that you can get them to turn. If so you're in business. Once they turn, it's just a quarter turn to open and close them. Start hitting them with a PB Blaster or mix of ATF and Acetone now, and let them soak a bit. I think they are 10mm. The wrench, if you can get them, will look like these, short handled, and they are life savers for this kinda stuff. MORE importantly, unless you want a dot4 shower, clear hose, 1/4 inch I think, 3-4 feet and a bottle to collect. Turn the key and let the pump work!
Exactly as Jag says, Hedman... Remember,,, kids have smaller hands AND she is gunna be the owner someday as you said, might as well get her under there and do the bleeding, lolololololololol...
Seriously tho, you're on the right track. It's tough up there. For the future Google a company called fossway (I think that's how it's spelled) and the they sell a set of speed bleeders that make bleeding remote, from just near the rear wheels without even using a jack...
The HOPE is that you can get them to turn. If so you're in business. Once they turn, it's just a quarter turn to open and close them. Start hitting them with a PB Blaster or mix of ATF and Acetone now, and let them soak a bit. I think they are 10mm. The wrench, if you can get them, will look like these, short handled, and they are life savers for this kinda stuff. MORE importantly, unless you want a dot4 shower, clear hose, 1/4 inch I think, 3-4 feet and a bottle to collect. Turn the key and let the pump work!
The prospect of a DOT 4 shower just made this task so much more attractive!
You sound like one of the Lucky ones with the later Teves System, which is much more reliable and very seldom goes wrong, so just start counting your lucky Stars, one at a time and Slowly!
As many other owners would just freak out at the prospect of doing what you did
The Rear Brakes are not that hard to do and you can get a 10mm Socket on them but give them a squirt of Penetrating Fluid like 'Jay' said and don't round off those Bleed Nipples whatever you do or you will be in more trouble than you know what to do with and may have to remove the rear cage in order to fix it
But also bear in mind that a 'Shop' could also screw things up as well and then charge you for the Privilege of trying to put it right!
Bleeding the Brakes is almost a 'Rite of Passage' so surely you can't quit now, as it might undo all the hard work that you have already done!
And just think of the Satisfaction that you will get when it is all done and dusted and She Stops as fast as She goes!
Extracted at most 1/4 cup from the passenger side (LHD) after 6-7 cycles. Later cycles did not pull any fluid. Then tried one cycle on the driver side and did not pull any fluid.
On many of the cycles, the ABS light would not go out and I would have to start over. Also, the pump would run for at most 5 seconds and then stop.
So I assumed that I needed to re-bleed the low pressure side. Removed the elbow, and got slow trickle of fluid. Even tried attaching a vacuum extractor to the line to pull fluid and still only a trickle. The reservoir was topped up the whole time.
Thinking back, this is similar to the first time that I tried bleeding the low pressure side.
So I am thinking that maybe there is some blockage in the outlet of the reservoir and I should remove it and thoroughly clean it.
That is really unusual, as when you pull that Plastic Elbow out Brake Fluid should flood out at full bore so going by all that you have said, it does sound like a blockage from the Reservoir to the ABS Pump
Taking out the Reservoir is a fairly easy job, as its only held onto the Master Cylinder Actuator by one bolt, so once that bolt has been removed its just a case of unseating it from the Master Cylinder Actuator by just pulling it off, where the Spigots from the Reservoir are pushed into Rubber Spigots of the Master Cylinder Actuator
So the first thing to do is to drain out the Reservoir, either by sucking it out with a Turkey Baster and or undoing the nearest Caliper Bleed Nipple and drain it out from there, after which You need to be Really Careful
Because although the Reservoir may look empty, there will still be lots of Brake Fluid inside it that you cannot see as well as more than one Spigot that Brake Fluid can come out of and since the Reservoir itself may take a bit of jiggling to pull off you need to watch out for not only unexpected splashes
But when you lift the Reservoir off, it is highly likely that Brake Fluid will then start to pour out everywhere, even though the Reservoir may have looked empty, so absolutely surround the thing with rag and don't attempt to lift the Reservoir over the Wing/Fender off the Car
Unless you've got the Reservoir wrapped up in a Towel and do make sure you also cover all the Paintwork with Towels, just like you did when you were bleeding the Low Pressure Side of the System, which sounds like you and your Daughter are both Experts at now
But seriously, expect a lot of Brake Fluid Spilling this time and keep a Bucket of Soapy Water and a Sponge handy to mop up any Spills, just in case the flow of Brake Fluid takes you by surprise from a Reservoir that is looking empty!
After you have taken the Reservoir off and Washed it out, it will need to be Bone Dry before you put it back, where a Hair Dryer could come in very handy, after which success with the Brakes will be looking a lot more likely
Taking out the Reservoir is a fairly easy job, as its only held onto the Master Cylinder Actuator by one bolt, so once that bolt has been removed its just a case of unseating it from the Master Cylinder Actuator by just pulling it off, where the Spigots from the Reservoir are pushed into Rubber Spigots of the Master Cylinder Actuator
Alex
Ok, potentially dumb question: where is the bolt that is holding the reservoir on the actuator? I looked at the part drawings on SNG Barratt and expected it to be above the valve block. But I don’t see anything there. My best guess at this point is that it is the small bolt circled in the photo below, which is tucked up under the reservoir and fairly hard to access.
Am I on the right track, or missing the boat entirely?
You Nailed it, that is the Bolt that I am talking about, so all you need is a 'Star Key' if you haven't got one most Cordless drills have got these 'Star Keys' included in the Kit and that Bolt 'Or should that be Set Screw' is easier to take out than you'd think
One of the first places that Brake Fluid will pour out from, is when you remove that Braided Pipe on the outlet of the Reservoir, which is best detached from the Hard Line rather than the Reservoir, so that you can Block it with the round end of a Pen or something like that
Even though that Reservoir may look empty, there is plenty of Brake Fluid in there, that you cannot see and at least 2 more Spigots going into the top of the Master Cylinder Actuator which is underneath it, that Brake Fluid will pour out from
So do be prepared for a bit of a flood of Brake Fluid, as it caught me out the first time I did this and as I may have said before don't let any Brake Fluid get onto the Paint and wrap the Reservoir in a Towel before you attempt to lift it out of your epically beautiful Car, or the Neighbours won't be as jealous as I am sure they are going to be
Just a thought, based on the fact that your reservoir does look as clean as it does
If you look down the Filler Hole you will see a Plastic Baffle
So when you fill the Reservoir up with Brake Fluid, you have to make sure there is Brake Fluid, either side of that Baffle Plate, so maybe that was your problem as a Blocked Reservoir on a Car in as nice a condition as yours, would seem to be quite unusual
Although not impossible if the PO either didn't change the Brake Fluid on a regular basis or somehow managed to get some 'grot' inside it, because when you first bled the Low Pressure side, you had to put your finger over the end in order to stop the flow (which is what makes me think that)
But if you have already taken the Reservoir out, then cleaning it now could also help to prevent any future problems like that further down the line, so its as well to have all bases covered which is why I did my own for that very reason
OB, the first time I bled the low pressure side, the fluid did not come gushing out. Which is what make me think there is a blockage somewhere between the reservoir and the pump.
04-28-2020, 05:53 PM
First milestone!
