Aluminum patterns are 101.7% Good luck. Young son has taken to AutoCAD like a duck to water, already improved inlets on the Le Mans cars and now finishing off the cam carriers (look better than my castings but there's still the pattern makers cost! Heidigger oil pump aquired and stripped, got it on CAD now and looking to remanufacture of these little beauties.

 

I hadn't been keeping up with this thread but I was literally about to ask if OP will give it to someone to put into CAD so the info is available and people can manufacture these on their own dollar/time.

I'd just like to see the CAD file because I am interested in the non-fireball combustion chamber design.

 

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check out HERON combustion head/chamber.

 

Gentlemen please realize that the cost of top quality sand cores for these heads will be in the region of £100K. Castings will be in the region of £500 each, machining costs £1500 to £2500 each dependent upon how you wish to do it. Then you will need porting (maybe 2K per head.) fitting seats guides getting the valves the springs their seats the retainers the locks the seals the studs.
We are talking scratch build here cost is about the same whether its a bugatti ligier Honda V12 F1 or our jag v12.
Having really gotten into this stuff I can tell you that with AutoCad its actually easier to start afresh. The only thing I would 'import' is the inlet and exhaust ports. Once you create the ports, the stud holes and the head holes valve guide holes etc and give everything a desired wall thickness it starts to create itself with a bit of blending here and there.
And yes if you wondered I did offer to put these puppies onto CAD.

 

never gave thought that YES, cost of casting/machining a Bugatti or Honda V12 head would close in cost to a Jag V12 head, YIKES that is a sobering thought!

just having the CAD would only be opening the door!

i remember back around 2002/03, operating my engine machine shop(Daytona FL). a job came in to rebuild two Lambo V12 heads, and align bore the main bearing saddles off the block, BAD overheat when racing!

i suggested new heads , YIKES at that time $12000. USD, (each).

new bare block from Italy $21000. USD.

well me being,never say no type, elecrtic oven heated the heads to get close to flat then nice surface cut, and hand finished the CAM bores till cams rotated by hand.

seats and valves came in fine , new springs,customer helpped with parts from Italy.

Lambo factory said NO NO, mains cannot be align bored, need new block. block had a steel main cap girdle.

well i have a picture of the block up on the TOBIN ARP machine, and spent 3 days measuring and fitting new crank(customer supplied).

all went well customer had engine reinstalled in vehicle, NEVER seen him again, for about 1 yr, asked how things are , said runs perfect, no problems.

 

This is Aus and much more expensive to do anything than the US. My XJS new in 1989 was list price $196,000 and a new XJR is over $300k.

$7k is a good price here for an engine rebuild. Mike Roddy charges a LOT more than this for a basic rebuild.

 

Why would you make a casting when you could just hand the CAD file and a billet of aluminum to a CNC shop?


This is why I am interested to look at the design. Could it be incorporated into a stock cylinder head, even partially. In other words, CNC a stock head to make a pseudo group44 head, making it significantly cheaper?

 

because the voids for the internal cooling passages.... are interesting to machine that way?

 

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sides you say two different things one is a CAD/CNC a billet head!
how would you get into the inside, to have cooling jackets??

then try a stock cast aluminum head CNC modded to 44 specs, MAN thats two different worlds of thought and approach to Jag V12 cylinder heads.

the way stock heads have been modded for better VE has been backyard PORTING and POLISHING< BIG VALVES ETC.

sides, there are 4 valve heads becoming available,twin cam,etc,, may be a good way to go, money wise?

there are so many ways,some good and some bad, but its up to you on your project engine,give it a try, you might just open a new idea!

 

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WOW,and YIKES, Warron, you guys must have big annual income,to support that type of costs?

makes me wonder why such a difference in different countries, maybe we are controlled by Aliens!

and the UK and EU bullsh$$t, only time will tell!

China probably laughing there butts off, saying told you so!!

OK over /out ,starting to rant.

 

I think WJ means Australian dollars RB, not USD, and at the exchange rate ruling at that time. Still pricey. though.
Greg

 

Billet heads are machined in 2 pieces and clamped with the head studs.

 

EGADS< that must be low cost?? in other words you need 4 heads,not just 2 heads

more reason for the twin cam 4 valve heads!!

money NO object, just billet machine a cylinder assembly with the head made on it,NO GASKET to blow or leak!
and bolt it to a crankcase assembly.

i regress here this whole thing is getting silly or more!

 

give me a break....

he means that the block mating surface including the intake and exhaust ports and stuff are cut! (part one the lower half) then the top (like a Tupperware box that fits over it that would seal the water cooling in is cut and it is sealed together... personally on the bottom half I would find a way to include the part where the valve spring seats are to increase the strength in that area...


if you have lots of time and are very artistic.... and are good and measuring things you could get a Moto zip and a block of AL and go to work hehehehehehee
or place it on your home made 3 axis cnc machine.... the day is coming.... when we can do this at home... for the cost of the block of AL and the time and energy it takes to cut out the parts....


really if starting from a blank CAD drawing I would bring in the measurements of the old heads stud placements the height and placement of the CAM... and that is it... staying with a single cam... I would then buy some matchless g50 engine parts from minnovation racing the cam box and the HEAD.... measure them and place them in the drawing (switching the head to water cooled.... ) then map the piston top for mew pistons ... (as they work together....) and regrind a v12 cam to the specs of the minnovation cam.... and place in the head 180degrees out of time as the new system is rocker arm from the top of the cam ? yes... thus completing a system where you would get 50hp out of 500cc .... oh yes~! even a lowly 5.3 with 445 cc / cylinder would be very HAPPY....


all it takes is time and money.... I would call those heads... (laughingly) JAG-U-WAUGHER

 

Whew? CNC! Computer numerical control. The machine work is only a part of it. The program for control is the bigger one.


My son makes carb and FI spacers in alloy and plastic for sale in his online performance parts business. Two ancient CNC mills and a smaller one resembling a controlled router. The latter, new.


Bought a program and designed modern controls for one of the old mills. Wrote programs for directing the cutter selection and path for the X,Y and Z axis. Clamp in a slab of plastic or alloy. Select the program and it goes to work reducing the slab to swarf and a spacer!! On it;s own.


So, wow, So many paths to cut in a chunk of alloy to produce a DOHC head???? No wonder it's lots of pounds, dollars, yen, euro's or what ever !


Way back when, a genius mechanic raced a midget. Power, a much modified Ford tractor engine. A little flat head 4. No real match for the hot Ford V8 60's but he liked the under dog status. Two slabs of alloy as a sandwich and he had a "better" head. I don't recall the extent of the machinery he had to carve it out. Now, two places to leak!!!


Ancient cars used "jugs" attached to a crankcase. No blown head gaskets there.


Carl

 

carl... the G50 produces 50hp for 500cc with one cam and two valves...
less parts... more power... simpler design... and that engine is air cooled
and is British.... Minnovation Racing | replica mathcless G50 engine
that would give a 6.0 L v12 in the range of 600hp (you would need new injectors of the 370cc/min and run 35 psi fuel pressure....)

 

that would give a 6.0 L v12 in the range of 600hp (you would need new injectors of the 370cc/min and run 35 psi fuel pressure....)[/QUOTE]

So is it easy!!! Really!

 

Well its all down to cost and as Mr Davis (EX TWR Manager) said to me, where's your market!
I have brand new TWR head castings on the shelf and the problem is the cost of turning these into usable cylinder heads.
Yes They will very slowly sell to people who total their XJR9 engines and have no choice or maybe to exceedingly well healed gentlemen who want the very best (and maybe have more money than sense ?) But they wont sell to anyone else.
But the dreams are nice .......
We had a chap over here with new castings trying to LS1 ise a V12 with a little success. Made about 800 bhp I am told but has now given up on the project. I think he was hoping for a lot more than that but just couldn't get there.
My dream is going over the 800 level, should be feasible applying modern NASCAR tech, Modern 20 weight oils with tight clearances, 10K RPM and utilizing modern spring and valve technology, top modern ECU etc but its not the 800 its the ability to accelerate per second per second that is the holy grail but that is rarely understood.
I'm getting there but I wont put my house into it!

 

about 800 using LS1 geometry sounds more than adequate...
he should have been proud
The chevy people got really fussy after lotus did the LT5 for them and felt they had to prove a point with developing the push rod V8 to power levels that would exceeded the 4 valve quad cam from lotus...
VERY sad, that was/is a beautiful engine ...

so no market for a LS1 type high VE 2 valve head.... to bad he did not make the drawing public domain...

 

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there is a small company in Australia that has a V12 LS design engine up and running, posted on a YT site!

also i think some one has one up in Seattle USA area, on the net with pix.

to add back in 2007, i was at a BIG vendor show in Orlando FL, and GM had an LS cylinder head V12, along with a V12 aluminm block!

and look up GMs sweet sixteen Cadillac concept car, LS 16 cylinder engine, and it runs, beautiful work,god knows what it cost!

so seems a lot of ideas and about the LS series engines!

they are really good engines , i have owned some , and my pix in my gallery, 1985 Buick Grand National, with LS3 in it, along with built 4L80E trans, 3.73 rear LSD.
the best thing is they are low cost to buy, along with many combination of parts!

we have locally a vette with the LT5 4cam engine, but truthfully its not very fast or exciting,(shame most people dont know what they are looking at).