Figured after a colder temp ride home that the aftercooler hoses would be pretty cool. Nope, pretty warm. Discharge side of the blower is plenty hot which is either internal heat or EGR based. Now wondering if the pump isn't pumping or something more devious is going on. Figured since the engine and aftercooler cooling loops are only tied together at the bleeder port up top and the bottom if there shouldn't be a restriction in the bleeder port to help isolate them better. I understand they don't want freezing cold coolant flowing through the system but I'd think 150+ is warmer than needed.

 

You'll have to forgive me for not speaking fahrenheit...

I made a few measurements of the intercooler temps (both the IAT2 temp, the air sensor, and a thermocouple stuck in the coolant outlet hose).

This was after the cooling system had been opened up and refilled, but BEFORE I had the cooling system vacuum bled to get rid of all the trapped air.

Cut & paste of previous communications with an un-named party;

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I did some datalogging with the IDS last night on a bit of a road trip.

28°C ambient temperature, cruising along at 80kmh after a cold start the charge temps were about 45°C (which is already too high)
Oil temp eventually got up to and settled around 105°C, engine coolant temps between 90°C and 95°, so normal conditions.

10 second pull at WOT the charge temp went from 45°C up to 60°C, and eventually worked it's way down to ~45°C again when cruising at 80kmh, once or twice it dipped down to ~40°C, but generally up around the ~45°C mark.

I stopped for fuel, while it was parked the charge temps went up to 75°C, and once I got back on the road they never recovered in 20mins of driving, stayed around ~55°C, even at 80 kmh on an open road.

Parked up when I got home and checked after 10 mins, and the charge temps were up to ~90°C (this was confirmed with a Type-K thermocouple in between the rubber of the outlet hose and the metal hose nipple off the left charge cooler).

This is the temperature sensor after the intercooler, in the intake manifold, IAT2. The IDS only reads the sensor voltage, but we could pull the values out of the stock tune file and convert volts to degrees C.

So basically it get's hot when parked up, and so hot it can't cool down again.

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Then i had the system vacuum bled, and the temps came down quite a lot.

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Ambient temps of 24°C, at night, no sun on the metal parts, with the engine running, bonnet up, and aircon on LO with the fan at #2 speed, after about 5mins the IAT2 comes down to around ambient temp, the charge coolers are "cool" to the touch compared to the heat of the engine bay, this is within 5-10mins after a 1/4 mile run at the track, WOT.

On the drive home from the track the IAT2 was not more than 4-5°C above the ambient temperature (23°C ambient, 27-28°C IAT2)

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Bottom line is, you MUST use a vacuum bleeder to get all the air out of the cooling system, that goes for both the engine cooling system and the intercooler (both are bled simultaneously).

 

You'll get restricted performance if the pump has packed up.

 

I think also can often get P2601 code.

 

Thanks for the replies. I haven't followed up on this. When I filled the coolant system I removed the 17mm Allen bolt on top of the blower to verify the fluid filled to that level. I assumed the cooling loops were filled as well. I need to convert the C to F in order to see if I'm close to where it should be. No codes or faults. Just seemed odd that the coolers weren't.

 

The system must be vacuum bled like Cambo said. I have found similar reading to his when it was not done. I also used water wetter and noticed about a 20F - 25F drop in IAT2 temps after vacuum bleeding and water wetter. I added a different intercooler pump (CWA050 and controller) and while the IAT2 temp did not drop an appreciable amount during city driving in 90F plus heat, the recovery time was much, much improved. In hind sight, I would use the CWA100 next time. Stock Jaguar pump does not seem efficient and is very expensive to replace.

 

Just bidding on such a kit on your advice.

I have gone thru all of the procedures that are listed in this forum however I feel that my highest heat setting is a fair bit lower than where it should be.
If the purge kit does not change this for the better then obviously there is another issue. We will see.

 

Printed out the section of the manual that addresses vacuum filling. I think I have a unit that's used on a 55 gallon drum and it should be able to draw a vacuum on the expansion tank. problem is I have coolant in the engine already. Might be able to McGyver something since the only purpose seems to be so it can collapse the hoses.

 

Spent some wonderfully warm weather outside today with the car. Found that I could collapse most the coolant hoses with 10" of Hg vacuum but it didn't take to coolant level down when the pressure was released below where I started so no displaced air. Found that I could jump out the fuse in the distribution box and manually drive the coolant pump. Felt pump pulses in the aftercooler hoses but of course I forgot my 17mm Allen wrench at work so I have no idea if it's flowing coolant. When I drove it home the other night in sub freezing temps both of the aftercooler hoses were slightly cool to the touch. No temp difference between them and the aluminum wasn't very cool. After sitting in the garage for about ten minutes they were heat soaked.

The saga continues.

 

The vacuum bleeder kits have a gauge on them with red, yellow and green markings, the green is "full vacuum" which is where you want to get it.

I can tell you that even after 45mins with the vacuum in the green mine was still making the occasional burp (could feel them with your hand on the overflow tank).

It took about an hour at full vacuum for the burps to stop.

The first time around after the vacuum bleed it took on nearly a litre more coolant than what originally came out.

 

I am waiting for delivery of a vacuum/purge system now and on a warmer day will try it out.

Do you have to drain all coolant from system before attempting to use the purge kit?

 

That's curious because I would think the main difference is the vacuum pulling the hoses shut displacing the air. Then there's the change is how much volume a mass of air contains at different pressures (Boyle's law). Because air is compressible it'll require less volume per PSI lost. 10psi in a 10 cubic inch space should only take up 1 cubic inch at 1 psi. So 1 atmosphere being 14.7 psi, dropping it ot 0 atmosphere should require 14.7x less space for the same volume of air. The trick is knowing what the green on the scale is actually reading. I checked and my little vacuum pump changed the system pressure 10"hg is @ 4psi loss.

Where it gets confusing is what happens to the air entrapped in a high spot in the system as the pressure changes? I'd assume as the pressure is drawn down that volume of air takes up less space allowing more coolant to enter the space. But what happens when the pressure is returned to atmospheric? I'd assume the entrapped air would just displace the coolant. Since liquid isn't compressible and gases are you'd think starting with a system mostly full of coolant would make it more efficient versus having the system dry.

Cambo, do you have a link to the pump you used?

 

If the trapped air pressure is dropped it will take up more volume not less.

Taking up more volume may well mean that it turns into a larger bubble allowing much of it to bypass the high point it was originally trapped in.

When the pressure normalizes there will still be some air trapped but a much smaller volume.

 

I like your theory much better than mine.

 

Its just a theory. I am waiting for warmer weather before I try my new "toy" purge kit which has not arrived yet.

I intend to use it with the car on ramps with the front high.

 

It was a Snap On branded tool, I don't have a link to it.

The first time we did it, it was bubbling for so long we assumed there was a leak somewhere letting air in, phoned a JLR tech friend and he said leave it for an hour at full vacuum, eventually it'll stop bubbling, and it did.

Yes you have to draw out a lot of coolant before putting on the vacuum.

The kit should have a "fill hose" you fill it full of coolant and run it into a full bottle of premix coolant, then fill the system by sucking out of that bottle, so no air gets back in. The vacuum pulls the coolant out of the bottle.

 

Checking out this guy, 12 cfm at 90 psi is gonna outwork my compressor, especially sucking for an hour. Might need to borrow my friends gasser.

 

Its the 27 piece kit like the one you show that I am expecting delivery of.

I looked at the one you hi-lite Ranchero50 but did not like the "plug" they have for the radiator connection so went with the kit with lots of choices for connection to the radiator.

27pc Master Cooling Radiator Pressure Tester with Vacuum Purge and Refill Kit on Ebay for $65 +-

 

If you have one of these laying around.

 

You have thought about it and realized my suggestion of using an old fashioned dent puller is really the ideal solution.
Yeah do the master cylinder while you are at it.