I am having trouble getting my car to pass smog testing. Everything is good except OBD test failures. I have tried doing the drive cycle at least 3 times, with no success. So I found a post that mentioned if you contact BAR (bureau of auto repair) they can help you out. Well, they sent me a letter to take to the dealer listing what needs to be done, so I call my local dealer in Anaheim Hills and was told by the service writer that they don't work on cars older than 2005 !!! Anyway, I go off on the guy screaming about brand and customer loyalty, etc. That goes to show how bad the dealership network really is. Just had to get that off my chest........

 

You are not alone. The dealerships in our neck of the woods make it quite clear that they no longer have any interest (or possibly no trained or experienced personnel) in working on the pre-Tata era Jaguars. Which is fine by me because I found an honest, fairly-priced, very experienced indie shop several years ago that is happy to handle whatever repairs I cannot manage myself. You should do the same....

 

There are various reasons ....some better than others....for refusing to work on the older cars. If the dealer has veteran service advisors and techs they can pick-n-choose the work they want, and often do. A 15-20 year old car that doesn't pass emission testing is not the type of work they would typically invite.

Lacking veteran staff the easiest option for the dealer is to set arbitrary limits. No judgement calls required or permitted !

Cheers
DD

 

The decisions made at that dealership were not made by that service writer, so unloading on him for the stores policy is a touch misdirected. I have found over the years that policies of this sort are mostly a result of the number crunchers...then given the nod by upper management or/and the owner. Working on older cars has its pitfalls. When you repair something many times the next weakest link in a system will become problematic.
Many people dislike dealerships, just like many people don't enjoy going to the dentist. It's not really the dentists fault someone's teeth are jacked up and he has to hurt you and charge a lot of money to sort things out.
When repairs are done on older vehicles and a chain of events occur many times, then some people become indignant and blame the repair person and the dealership automatically and get insistent that they continue repairs down the chain of weaknesses that follow on their dime. Many times this person gets very loud and abusive and very very insistent directly in front of other customers which is one of the worst parts. Many times they also have no idea of the facts either. An irate and loud customer is something that must be avoided, as it makes the business look terrible in other people's eyes. The internet has also changed things in business with things like "reviews". One irate person who isn't even remotely reasonable can curse you relentlessly online.
Sometimes when your a business owner things don't make economic sense and are not worth the exposure for the sake of what the core business is.
If things become a no win situation for a dealer policies will follow. Dealers are having a tough time keeping and acquiring new technisions as well. To train people in current and later model cars is a true challenge. To include older cars makes the level of training almost impossible. Companies change and change hands over the years, parts become obsolete and non stock worthy as well.
A Ford dealer is probably not the best place to work on a 1957 Thunderbird. That person needs to work on their own car or find a specialist. The typical life cycle of cars in our disposable society is shorter and shorter every year. In a free capitalist country like ours if you don't like or agree with the way someone is running there business it is always the consumers prerogative to go somewhere else rather than proceed to dog cuss someone who did nothing wrong and is simply working within his companies guide lines in an effort to feed his family and pay his bills.
Lots of people don't like lawyers either, but when you need one you need one. All of this is just my opinion of course, but I've been a dealer for 34 years, and it's not a gold mine nor a cakewalk.

 

A contributing factor might be that Tata is not producing parts for any car made before the acquisition. Dealers don't want a service bay tied up for a long time waiting on a part they have to source (or may never find). I don't like it but I get it.

 

Tata now makes a large group of cars called "Bodacious Tatas"

 

But did you actually buy the car from them, or another Jaguar dealer? I would guess, like most of us, you actually bought the car second hand, years after it left the factory and, if you have any sense, never use Jaguar to service your car. So you can't really demand customer loyalty if you are not actually their customer.

It would be a different thing entirely if they had sold you the car and are now refusing to service it for you.

 

I'm just amazed that someone takes their car to a dealership for anything but warranty work. Must feel like spending time in the prison shower.

 

Good point.

I have to chuckle a bit.

Over the 20+ years that I've been on various Jaguar forums the prevailing philosophy has always been to absolutely avoid dealerships at all costs as soon as the car is out of warranty. Buy your parts from outside vendors and/or find a good indy to do your service and repairs. Fair enough, we all like to save money...but why, then, the indignant, fist-shaking outrage when the dealers no longer support older cars?

You can't have it both ways.

Working on older cars, and stocking parts for them, can be difficult in a number of respects. Lots of potential for problems, ranging from mildly inconvenient to unmitigated PITA. It might be worthwhile if there was enough demand. But, there isn't. No demand, no supply. You don't need a degree in economics to understand that.

I was in the dealer game for 30 years. We generally shied away from working on older cars...the few that came our way... but those were case-by-case decisions, not an arbitrary cut-off. And if a loyal customer had an oldie car we'd always do our best to accommodate him or her....to the extent our resources would allow

When I hear of arbitrary age cut-offs my first assumption is the dealer has inexperienced service advisors who can't be trusted to make good decisions as to which jobs he/she bring into the shop and which should be turned away.

Cheers
DD

 

I should add that the manner in which customers are turned away is everything. A bit of diplomacy never hurts. My policy was to offer a turned-away customer alternatives...typically a local shop that was geared-up for working on older cars.

I've been out of the dealer game for almost 10 years now. I must say that my observations of how service advisors are trained these days is disappointing. They've become more like robots; very 'scripted' behavior.

Cheers
DD

 

Dr Fixit- I have used a specific drive cycle with 100% effectiveness with 15 Jaguars- what OBD2 test is not passing/completing? HINT: 55-58MPH on a freeway for 15-20 min is mandatory and very hard to do here where everyone is going 85. IMPORTANT: Gas gauge must be between 1/2 and 3/4 or it WILL NOT finish.

So you can see it on a map: start from cold, idle for 7-10 minutes YES THAT long) enter the 405 N from Harboar in Costa Mesa, Drive 55-58MPH to Valley View, exit while coasting as long as possible. Right turn onto Valley view and drive 35-38MPH until reaching the shopping center on the right (1-2 mi) park, wait 30 seconds, then get back on the road at 35-38MPH. Enter the 405S and drive 55-58MPH and Exit Harbor blvd.

You could probably do the same with La Palma (nice, long stretches) and the 91E.

 

it depends upon the dealer and often the particular make of vehicle. with some vehicles the dealer prices and parts are equal to, sometimes better than independent shops and at least you are not receiving substandard parts. some also gratefully service the older models. we have that problem in my market where most of the independent shops are (profanity deleted) and the parts suppliers market the worst of the aftermarket to which they charge an unbelievable markup. used to have conflicts with some independents when i asked them to order factory parts from the dealer, same price to me, but this told me that they and the parts dirtbags were sharing a markup on substandard parts.

on the other hand, our local Jaguar dealers have had relations with my independent to fix the older models. they recognize the issues and have worked out something to everyone's satisfaction. what you need is an independent who has the technology and experience with your make and model. it is even possible for an independent to do software upgrades for Jaguar and other brands if the investment was made for the hardware and subscriptions.

keep looking and you will find someone.

sadly, this thread shows how much has been lost regarding business etiquette. how one treats a customer that he is not interested in serving says a lot and can determine future business.

 

I have a local Jag dealer here in London Ontario. I really don't expect him to look after my 15 year old exotic. I know I didn't buy an XK8 as an everyday driver, although into my 4th year that is the way it has turned out. I am lucky my parts guy has an older XK8 has worked there for 15 years and shares the passion. He knows by the parts I have ordered what I have worked on and I have even been asked to share some experiences on repairs with their mechanics. I had some stubborn emmision system issues with my 2004 XK8 and between my ELM torque pro and this forum I was able to track the problem down. I also had one of the worst jobs in my life as a service advisor at a Ford ***********. Never take it out on him if you can't get service, his job is to get your car on a lift so they can put it to you.

 

It would be easy to walk away from the heat of this thread. I cannot. My 2c is not intended to offend and I have no obligations to any dealership but . . . I have some huge issues with the opening post -

• if faced by a loud, belligerent customer who unloads (as you boast) on service reception staff, I would not want you, irrespective of car, in my establishment, as business owners (at least, in my country) have obligations not only to customers, but also to their staff;

• I object to wholesale, offensively scripted criticism of all dealers, given that many of our resident techs here are, or were, employed in such establishments - yet give freely of their time, knowledge & skills here for the benefit of members who use these resources to DIY;

• nor am I a wowser . . . but I also object to offensive language, no matter how camouflaged, being included in thread titles . . . especially when it appears designed to denigrate others.

As an Aussie, I can swear with the best . . . especially when a **** spanner slips, but I suggest a cool head rather than cheap shot may have achieved the sort of help that others have experienced. Perhaps my Grandma's mantra is even more relevant in these "in yer face" days . . . viz "Treat others as you would want them to treat you . . . ie with respect".

Mine may well be an unpopular, minority view, but respect ranks pretty high and is usually self rewarding.

Ken

 

Part of the service advisor's job is to take some heat. It goes with the territory. Some heat. Not unlimited heat.

What bothered me the most was angry customers being abusive to the hapless service cashier. Damn cowards. They know full well that, whatever they're angry about, the poor girl had no bearing on it whatsoever. They just want to be abusive to someone they know won't or can't fight back. Damn cowards.

Cheers
DD

 

For many years , around here, nobody ( except rich old people ) has brought any out of warranty vehicle to a dealer for anything but a recall. My late father worked at the the VW/Porche dealer for many years ( all the while driving an Austin ) and said this 20 years ago. I have two mate who work at dealerships and say the same thing. I personally go to the local Jag dealer to check on the their cost for parts and will buy from them if they are competitive. Surprisingly they are for many small items because they change nothing for shipping. Otherwise I buy online.

 

As cars get older they are less and less likely to see the dealership service department. That's been the norm for as long as I can remember, regardless of make. Well, maybe exceptions for ultra-rare, ultra-exotics. if there was any allure to 'factory trained technicians' and "factory parts', blah blah....it dissipates over time.

Second and third owners are not as likely to use the dealership as the original owner. Those wanting simple routine service are less likely to use the dealer.

Cheers
DD

 

A year ago, after hiring a new Service Manager, I received the below email from my local dealer. The impression I got, whether right or wrong, was that they were not experienced in repairing older (pre-2010) cars but desired to be for future business potential. Hence the 40% off offer for pre-2010 cars.

Dear Valued Jaguar Owner:



As the new Service Manager of Jaguar Palm Beach, I am committed to making the ownership experience of your Jaguar automobile as pleasurable and as convenient as possible. My team of service consultants and Jaguar factory-trained technicians are prepared to handle all of your vehicle’s needs--from basic maintenance to heavy overhauls--using the latest diagnostic technologies, equipment, and information straight from the same Jaguar team who built your automobile. We use only genuine Jaguar parts, of course, which come with a 12-month warranty on repairs, honored at any Jaguar dealer nationwide. We also provide valet pick-up and delivery services as well as a shuttle service and loaner vehicles for those clients with special needs.

Considering all of the advantages that come with servicing your Jaguar with us, why would you take your automobile to a quick lube, wholesale club, or B-grade aftermarket shop? Price, you say? Well, consider this offer: Through the end of 2016, bring this letter with your vehicle to our shop, and we will take 40% off of your parts and labor. You read that correctly: 40% off oil changes, battery replacements, wiper blades, brake pad and rotor replacements, air conditioning repairs, engine performance repairs, engine and transmission overhauls, and anything else your vehicle may need to look and run at its best. This 40% offer is good on everything—except tires because we are already offering you a Buy 3, Get 1 Free promotion as well.

Our competitors cannot match our technical know-how and factory support. They cannot match our no-appointment-necessary convenience and amenities. They cannot match our alternate transportation options and concierge services. And now, they cannot match us on price. So the only question I can ask you is: Why would you take your Jaguar automobile anywhere else?

 

Hmmm. I'm wondering if they raised their prices on pre-2010 cars' parts and service by 40% the day they mailed those letters....

 

I ran my drive cycle 4 times to make sure it did the trick. I had to drive my route at 3:30am for consecutive 4 days in a row. But, it did work. Went from my house to Sunset Blvd to 405 South, to 10 West, PCH to an access route to San Vicente, and back to the house. Had to do the runs at 3:30am because at a couple of points you have to coast to some unfriendly fwy speed.