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TA DA!!! LOL. Finally. After numerous more tries and iterations of extensions, wobble extensions and sockets it finally came off with the crow's foot socket. I couldn't get my breaker bar on the end of the row of extensions because I only have one set of jack stands (I, of course sold all my jack stands because "what am I going to need those for?" I said to myself) so I couldn't get the car up far enough off the floor. I got out my best 1/2" drive ratchet and was able to get both hands on it from just outside the car and to my great surprise it moved enough for me to get back under the car and take another easy turn on the ratchet. I pulled the extensions out and I was able to reach up between the exhaust pipe and the frame to spin it the rest of the way off.
Not sure if all the discoloration means it's bad but the new one goes in tomorrow morning. I guess my big question is if the discoloration is from heat could that mean the Cat is bad with just 64,000 miles on it?
Then it's time for the Driver's side one. More to follow.
I knew I shouldn't have given myself a "TADA". Anyone out there ever actually taken out one of these things and then put a new on in without taking off the Cat??? I've been under this POS for the last hour trying to get the new one to start threading into the hole. I do not have the worlds largest hands and can just barely get mine up into the space enough to insert the sensor into the port. I can neither turn it to start threading it into the port by hand nor can I get one of the sockets onto it to try and turn it that way. If someone out there knows the secret to installing one of these please let me know. If not, I guess I am going to have to remove the cat to get the sensor back in.
It does look from those photos that those are the upstream sensors you have labelled as downstream, i.e the ones before the cat? or do i have my definition wrong?
Either way, the o2 sensors before the cat are best accessed... through the AC drain ports through the dashboard.
It does look from those photos that those are the upstream sensors you have labelled as downstream, i.e the ones before the cat? or do i have my definition wrong?
Either way, the o2 sensors before the cat are best accessed... through the AC drain ports through the dashboard.
no, the ones I’m changing are the downstream ones, the ones AFTER the cat at the bottom of the cat system. I went out and tried again to figure out how to screw this one back into the port but I just can not get it to start the threads because 1/ it’s at an angle 2/ I can’t get my hand into the space far enough to turn it. I see no other way to do this other than taking the upper bolts that hold the exhaust manifold to the cat off, removing the 4 bolts that hold the lower end of the cat to the transmission and the bolt that holds the end of the cat to the exhaust pipe. Those are the ones in the photos I posted above. It looks like the whole catalytic converter will drop down after that and I can take it to the bench and put the sensor back in and then remove the sensor from the other side and put the new one in and then put the cats back.
Hey Joe,
It looks like someone in the past may have done you a favour by substituting bolts for the stud & nut arrangement that normally joins the cat to the manifold.
If that's the case, then you may strike lucky as the cat will be able to drop somewhat, and you may have enough room to slide it forward off the exhaust without any further ado.
Otherwise you have some wiggle room to push the downstream boxes back to get clearance. Try that before you remove the cross-brace you've pictured (it whacked the transmission mount on mine), but it's only a couple of bolts.
Good luck - typical job where you have to clear lots of stuff out of the way to get access. I had to remove everything forward of the first rear boxes to get one cat out...
Do you have a small-handed neighbor willing to help? I have monster-sized hands and my small-handed neighbor has come to my rescue several times over the years. He calls me for jobs that need brute strength, and I call him for jobs that need the ability to get hands and tools into tight spaces....
Hey Joe,
It looks like someone in the past may have done you a favour by substituting bolts for the stud & nut arrangement that normally joins the cat to the manifold.
If that's the case, then you may strike lucky as the cat will be able to drop somewhat, and you may have enough room to slide it forward off the exhaust without any further ado.
Otherwise you have some wiggle room to push the downstream boxes back to get clearance. Try that before you remove the cross-brace you've pictured (it whacked the transmission mount on mine), but it's only a couple of bolts.
Good luck - typical job where you have to clear lots of stuff out of the way to get access. I had to remove everything forward of the first rear boxes to get one cat out...
Now I'm wondering why someone was in there making changes with only 64,000 miles on the car???? Hmmmmmmmm????
I was thinking about removing the mounting bracket that holds the cat to the trans to give me room to get my hand in there but I just watched a video that indicated the bolts that hold the bracket to the engine/trans become brittle and could brake off.
Do you have a small-handed neighbor willing to help? I have monster-sized hands and my small-handed neighbor has come to my rescue several times over the years. He calls me for jobs that need brute strength, and I call him for jobs that need the ability to get hands and tools into tight spaces....
Hey Jon,
I don't think I know anyone with hands that small. I can get my hand up in there just can't turn the sensor.
Now I'm wondering why someone was in there making changes with only 64,000 miles on the car???? Hmmmmmmmm????
I wondered initially if that had been a running change, but the parts catalogue picture still indicates studs in the cat.
Originally Posted by OCJoeR
I was thinking about removing the mounting bracket that holds the cat to the trans to give me room to get my hand in there but I just watched a video that indicated the bolts that hold the bracket to the engine/trans become brittle and could brake off.
I haven't read of that happening, but... The captive nuts on the bracket are also SS:- the bolts came out on mine no problem, but that doesn't help your access issue.
A broken bolt there is a lot less pain than in the bellhousing, though.
After watching the video on cat removal and seeing there were 4 studs in the original cat flange I went back into the car since I could only see 2 bolt heads. Sure enough there are 2 more in the positions the other studs were in. I don't see any way to get to those, especially the one under the exhaust manifold. So I don't think I'll be removing the cat. It still has be wondering when and who changed them out for bolts.
I went out and looked at that bracket again and, you're right, it doesn't help access. So I guess I'm just going to play around with the sensor and see if I can get it to thread into the port using maybe some modified socket/extension or something I haven't thought of yet.
Any help/suggestions here would be greatly appreciated.
interesting; I don't recall the downstreams as being hard to remove. I did drop my whole exhaust from the car tho, as seen from the photos in my post. You can also see i removed the downstream sensors for access to the upstreams. I do recall dropping the whole exhaust prior to removing the downstreams.
Also, I had no success using a crows foot socket, and used a slotted one instead to break the o2 sensor loose. you could also consider using a soldering iron, heat gun or even better an induction heater to heat the area up.
Also, you are replacing the sensor, right? Just cut the wire and use a socket. I think i used a slotted deep socket, ratchet wrench and an extension bar to break the lowers loose.
What's the old saying about necessity and the mother of invention. This time Mom showed up in the form of one of those long flexible magnets that you use to pick up that screw that dropped into some otherwise inaccessible area. I was able to use it to hold the sensor at the angle it needed to be at in order to thread it into the port. I could then use just the tips of my fingers to move it bit by bit onto the threads. I also had to extend the cable out straight and hold it with my other hand so I could turn it along with the sensor, otherwise just the weight and tension on the cable caused the sensor to undo the little movement I was able to put on it. After several little nudges it caught enough threads so I could use my fingers to spin it on to where it held until I could get the socket back on and tighten it back up. Thank you for the string tip. It made getting the cable back up to where I could connect it to the other end much easier.
The left side has a bit more access so I was able to get the socket on the sensor easier. Then I was able to get one of those universal swivel sockets onto that and then a wobble extension and then a long straight extension. But then the sensor just wouldn't budge. I've got it soaking in WD-40 now so I'll go back out and give it another try in a bit. It should be a little easier to get the new one started too since I can get my hand up in there easier.
Now I just have to hope that the sensors were the issue with the cat monitor not resetting.
Joe
OK, after a bit of fiddling I was able to get the sensor on the left side out and the new one back in. Now I just have to wait until the granddaughter gets picked up so I can have mama come out to the garage and help pull the sensor cable up so I can plug it in. There seem to be more wires on this side for the cable plug to get tangled in so I can't pull it up by myself. Then it's just taking it off the jacks and taking it out for a spin to see if the cat monitor resets. I'll probably have to wait until later tonight so I can do that "drive cycle" on the freeway again. One can not possible drive 55 mph for 15 minutes at this time of the day.
Well, it's all cleaned up and off the jack stands.
I'm going to fire it up and take it for a ride and then throw the OBD2 on it and see if the CAT monitor is still reading INC. I've watched about 50 videos about "drive cycles" over the past 6 months. Everyone had a "magical" procedure to clear INC codes. I had to start making a list of which "drive cycles" were recommended most. From what I can see the "drive 55 mph for 15-20 minutes, then take you foot off the throttle and coast to 5-10, then repeat" seems to be the most referenced. So, I'll give that a try. Of course here in Beautiful So Cal I'll have to wait until about 3 in the morning to do that because there's no way to drive that long at 55 on the 91 or the 57 at this time of day.
Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Especially since I have to get this thing smogged by today. Unless the kind people at DMV are willing to give me another extension. I'll bring a picture of my hand after surgery just for some sympathy, lol.
They're known as "coast downs" and used very much for misfire detection. I wouldn't bother as that's not the main issue.
I also wouldn't worry too much about exactly how you drive it, but do at least 2 warm ups (so codes might flag).
Then see which monitor(s) is/are unset. (Don't clear codes as that unsets them all.)
Hi Jag,
Thank you for getting back. I can use all the help I can get here.
After a lovely 2 hour experience at California DMV yesterday I got a 2 week extension on my smog check.
This is one of the videos I've watched in which they specifically state that the 55 mph for 5 minutes and then coast to 20 is what clears the CAT monitor:
They also go into detail about the other monitors including the misfire detection one. Are you saying that is incorrect?
When you say do at least 2 warm ups, do you mean start the car and let it run for 3 minutes to warm up then shut it off and do the same thing? You'll have to pardon my lack of knowledge in this area but this is the first car I've owned where I'm having this issue so I've never had to do any of this "drive cycle" stuff before. Many of the videos are unclear regarding exactly what needs to be done. I'm using an iCarsoft LR V2.0 which is supposed to be specifically for Jaguar and Land Rover vehicles. I may have forgotten to mention that. I also have another less expensive OBD2 somewhere in the garage.
The other OBD2 that I have is an Ancel AD310. However, when I try to use it to read the codes I get the message "DTC definition not found. Please refer to vehicle service manual." When I read the IM readiness monitors I get the below readings.
The iCarsoft OBD2 shows the Evap as OK. Other than that I get the same OK and INC readings on both.
