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I got the spring insulator in yesterday and had a bit of a trail run this morning.
Man it's so close, with a bit of trim on the center cone to make it lay flat, we are getting there. I know that it would go all the way down to the plate with the weight of the car but that's taking a chance it could be creased slightly.
As you can see, it is a bit short of the full OD but the one that it's being compared too is old and been crushed and only 7/16 inch wide. This one is 5/8 inch before crush, so should fill out a bit in the cavity between the plates.
Have not received a new set of Energy Suspension bushings that will be (I hope) a better fit after a cut that the motor mount.
Again, so difficult when the parts don't have the measurements in the advertisement.
The pictures are large again, I'm going to have to figure that out, but you can see what's going on better. LOL
More of what needs to be done and as I didn't get the new inner bushing in, just thought I would see if I could get a better fit on the big donut.
Turns out the original donut was chamfered 45 degrees at the base because there a some **** there to keep it in place and without the chamfered edge the donut would not set all the way to the bottom around the bell.
I feel like I need to figure all the things that must be done, hope for a few, to make a good fit and work better than the original.'
Here is some photos to show that the original was cut and how I'm going to get it right. Little steps.
Looks and feels like I have the inner mount for the shock stem done.
The top (red) one is a Energy Suspension upper mount for a Ford Mustang II Strut bar, very firm. It's 2 1/4 inch wide. Needs to be cut to 5/8 inch height (which is right on the edge of the slope, so a no brainer) and the back side drilled 1 1/4 inch down until a bit of clearance for the drain hole. They come in a pack of 4.
I used a Fostner bit for the 1 1/4 inch hole, cut it smooth as silk and a fine blade hack saw to cut the larger donut. You can keep a much straighter line as you cut around it moving in a 1/4 turn on the vice.
The bottom didn't work out for the Speedway motor mount big washer, had a metal plate right where I needed to cut for the correct height, but the other part of the kit bushing was a perfect fit for the bottom hole in the bottom plate for the shock mount. After drilling out 1 1/4 inch hole (for the middle plate protrusion, like on the top bushing also), I hit another washer but when I took it out, perfect for the protrusion and to clean the drain hole. Best part, that's all the effort used to make it right, as with the little more flex than the top one and it being 11/16 inch, I installed as is. It's also very firm but not as much at the top one. Any one that has removed the original ones will know, there is no flex in them, so firm with flex on these is going to not be noticed by many.
The top will be the one taking all the hard banging and the bottom gets the rebound from the springs.
As installed, they are both hard to push a screwdriver into and both have a lip to keep centered. The top lip is not a perfect fit like the lower one, but after install, don't think it's going anywhere. Just have to be sure it's centered before cranking the screws down. I used the larger hole of the three side ones to screw it down with the 10-32 screws and will try the pop rivets when I know all is well.
Any more measurements to come when and if I need adjustments.
Can't wait for the results. I'm so excited for a solution that will actually last as opposed to the OE foam mounts and the Welsh mounts which have caused disilusionment.
From what I gather so far, you have used and modified the following Energy Suspension parts, am I right?
The bottom bushing came form Speedway Motors and was near $22, the shipping was almost $15, so that hurt the cost slightly.
The others I got from Amazon, total was free shipping and didn't try the Speedway one on Amazon.
it was this: Universal Bolt-Through Engine Mount Cushion Kit Part #: 7209314 Qty: 1 @ Price: $ 21.62
I'm going to see if Energy Suspension has something that is compatible, but really like the fit of this one. Hate to only use half the kit but the full total in not bad since enough for both sides in each kit.
Have one more hole to drill in the top bushing, needs to be opened up to 3/4 inch, I hope, to get the nut on the stem. May do a slant hole on the drain just to make sure it's open. May just use a rasp file when I take it apart and tell everyone to pay attention to that on assembly.
Until it's tried under some spirited driving, can't be sure all will stay in place, sure don't want to get anyone hurt. Don't see where it would do anything other than make a lot of noise, like the original, if there was a issue.
Worked on the large donut today and it's a bit scary. Had to take some of the hole out of the trim router, the 45 degree cutter needs to be adjusted for a shallow cut the first time. The cut is 3/8 inch down, be sure and draw a few line with a marker and you can use the metal cover ring to keep it stable for the wheel to ride on. I still have all my fingers, but your hand will be close, so take it slowly, don't, that's a do not, try to make the cut in one effort.
It now sets really well on the bell and a little pressure downward and it doesn't move.
Cut the 1 inch hole in the top bushing to allow a socket to tighten the nut. That cleared up the water drain hole and let me put a note here that no matter which mounting system you use, that nut must go down to a stop. After I tried moving the shock around to see if I could get the **** on the bushing to move, I forgot I had to take a picture and put the nut back on and tightened until the shaft started to move. Took it off the vise, you could spin the whole upper mount on the shaft. If the spring had been installed, no way would you know there was a loose connection. Just a heads up, hold that shaft until you know it's solid.
After installing all the parts, I put it in a vise and the shock was standing at a 90 degree. Grabbed it on the bottom and proceeded to move it sideways in all directions. I did get two pictures with it at a large angle. No way in the normal position will it ever go that far. No indication that the mounts moved off center. Of course the full weight of the car and a pot hole could prove me wrong, but I like this.
The bottom bushing fits perfect in the hole and there is also a secondary shelf in the bottom area, so when crushed goes down onto another shelf, as it's a double plate there. I did rasp a slanted hole to make sure the water drain was clear.
So I got one complete, time to take it all apart and get all of the depths measured, most important one is the shelf for the washer. Must be a tight fit of 1 1/4 inch and just deep enough that a little pressure sets it down on the washer. That way, when crushed, it's going to stay in place. One thing I need to mention again about that bottom bushing. It has a washer in the top part you will be drilling a 1 1/4 inch hole. After you get to the washer, stop, the rubber should be cut off by now, so pry the washer out and stop drilling, it's now just like you want it. Again, it's a bit softer compound than the top, so, even through thicker, it crushes down to be very firm.
Surely while I know those reading or thinking about doing this, do so at your own risk, it's not tried and true as yet and your results may vary from mine.
To be updated when I can and have more information.
It's been a while and just before I rivet these two together, thought I would take one more picture of what's inside the strut tower top.
I really like this, very solid.
In the process of letting all of you know what I did in this thread, it's kind of all over the place and some measurements changed when the initial ones didn't work out.
The holes for the top donut after being cut to close to 5/8 inch or 16 MM should be:
Bottom 1 1/4 inch with a depth of 1/4 inch, centered as best you can. Leave it clamped down in the vise (if you are using one) and drill a 1 inch hole completely through.
The one for the motor mount kit for the bottom bushing is pretty much straight forward, drilled with a 1 1/4 inch until hitting the washer, remove washed and hopefully you will not have a bad one, with the washer not installed in the mold correctly. One was not level, but had a **** to it. I drilled far enough to level it out and it was still a good fit. Only taking a 1/16 inch.
For most the 45 degree angle on the large insulator may be a problem. I did it by hand, but have done a lot of routing, a friend with a table could do it easily but the set up time is the issue if you have to pay for it. I do know it can be done with a rasp file with rounded profile. Kind of a file to fit project.
Parts list:
Energy Suspension A 9-6120 insulator
Energy Suspension 4-7113R Mustang II strut arm bushing
Speedway Motors Universal Motor Mount Kit Part # 7209314
Try Amazon on the ES as one order, no shipping but will cost a dollar or two more each.
Did not try the motor mount yet, but will check, they do offer a $10 discount if you look around for the first order. I didn't see it until I had hit the button.
My car doesn't need it right now, but I may just go ahead and put it on, hate not to try it myself. Anybody close need mounts done? Not going to mail any out until I know it's as good if not better than what we already have.
Thank you Wayne for the R & D on an improved Frt. Upr. Mount. Looks great and with the large dounut from E.S. should be durable. Their items have served me well in other installs. BTY, been so long since I did my Welsh, does the large donut fit into the lower plate assembly, next the upper plate with the small Poly donut and Washer; then you rivet the top plate to the bottom while compressed in vise or held by bolts. Been a few years since I did this. :-)
Kelly, it's been a while since installing Jon's wife's, I really think the small donut went on top and was a bitch to center and get compressed.
This compression on this setup is between 3/8 and 7/16 spacing around the edge, but because it's firm material and has the lip for the holes, just a good fit. Moving the shock all over the place did show the small give in the bottom bushing but nothing to the side in the top one.
I did work on making the top one as flat as possible with a belt sander and gently moving it around in a figure 8.
One thing I have not put any comments on is the big washer. It was glued to the bushings and should be cleaned to shinny and no glue, these bushing are very tight with only the smallest of pressure and clamped down, if they move, something is really wrong. No silicone grease as best I can figure, the only movement will be the flex of the bushing. Our shocks at the front only have a small amount of movement, fully extended is less than 6 inches, if I remember rightly.
For so little movement, I just don't see why a plate with a hole in it could not have been used and a regular shock bushing setup. Now that's a thought, a plate between the already existing plates, but then finding the right shock length and a 12MM hole in the bottom.
Help me please, my OCD is kicking in. LOL.
In the process of letting all of you know what I did in this thread, it's kind of all over the place and some measurements changed when the initial ones didn't work out.
The holes for the top donut after being cut to close to 5/8 inch or 16 MM should be:
Bottom 1 1/4 inch with a depth of 1/4 inch, centered as best you can. Leave it clamped down in the vise (if you are using one) and drill a 1 inch hole completely through.
The one for the motor mount kit for the bottom bushing is pretty much straight forward, drilled with a 1 1/4 inch until hitting the washer, remove washed and hopefully you will not have a bad one, with the washer not installed in the mold correctly. One was not level, but had a **** to it. I drilled far enough to level it out and it was still a good fit. Only taking a 1/16 inch.
For most the 45 degree angle on the large insulator may be a problem. I did it by hand, but have done a lot of routing, a friend with a table could do it easily but the set up time is the issue if you have to pay for it. I do know it can be done with a rasp file with rounded profile. Kind of a file to fit project.
My car doesn't need it right now, but I may just go ahead and put it on, hate not to try it myself. Anybody close need mounts done? Not going to mail any out until I know it's as good if not better than what we already have.
Wait, you did all of this, and yours aren't even bad? Now that's commitment and initiative! I would love to know how these hold up. I may need them sooner than later as my Welsh mounts are already becoming off-centered. If you ever plan on making a business out of this, I could be your first customer. As it stands, I'm already making a list of all the tools I would need to buy to follow your example.
lets see, as nothing requires things too be within thousandths of an inch, a hand drill would work, but the two drills, Fostner 1 1/4 and 1 inch might be better to buy a kit at HF., one fine blade hacksaw blade and nerve enough to cut a $30 bushing., good thing you get four of those.
Round rasp file and half moon rasp file, another kit at HF.
That's on the "If I had too" situation.
Mainly a drill press, couple of drills, trim router, 45 degree cutting blade and a rivet gun. Oh, 3 10X32 1 inch screws and nuts. Feeler gauges to help with depth. of the top bushing. A good wire bush wheel to clean up the large washer.
I have had some interest off the Forum and really should give a update.
The guts of the bell is as good as it gets, so going to say that's a rap..
The large donut, not so much. There is just too much play between the spring metal pad and the insulator. That is the Energy Suspension A 96120, it worries me that under a hard turn it could move, even with the weight of the car on it. A chance on install someone could get it off center also. Don't know the effect, but not happy
with it.
I have a parts guy going over what he has, they get measurements on OEM stuff, but he will be doing it when he can, so a few days from now, with luck.
I have found what may be a solution, it's a kit from a Universal part on the Energy Suspension site A 9 6108, which is two almost perfect size but the problem being they are only 5/16 inch tall, fine if you want to lower the front end, but not the thickness we need for standard. OH, it's also 5 13/16 inch wide, should be much better in that area also. So my thought, until I get them in, is to cut the ridge that goes next to the bell off and lay it on the bell and put the other one on top of it, giving a 5/8 inch height.
They make several Poly glues, so that might be the answer if it looks like it will move on top of each other, the metal plate with the spring should keep it from moving. Don't see how, but will be sure in my mind before giving it the OK.
I did find the 1/8 inch rivets will work if you add a washer on the crushed side. The holes in the plates are a little bit larger than 1/8 inch, so the crush only grabs by a very small amount. That is going to be the least of any worries.
Now waiting on the A 9 6108's.
Steady progress, Wayne. I know you will get there soon, and then we will have the best front upper shock mount design anywhere on the market for these cars. I wonder if the folks at Welsh Enterprises are paying attention....
As popular as this forum is, at the work you have pit in, as well as this being an issue, AND having experience with several other auto forums, I can promise you someone is watching. Probably already studying production and what to charge for a mount of better quality.
I would be! Of course, I'd be insistent on paying you some type of compensation if needed, seeing that I'm of such good character..
