IDS is good to 2009 and I normally work on the old non-VID block cars.
I have NO IDEA about SDD. It was issued long after I quit the dealer and did not go to SDD training.
I have and use several WDS and IDS setups.
I have BOTH WDS and IDS software to download the VID block from the later cars.
Someone else familiar with SDD will need to answer that.

 

Well, now I'm back to being very confused.
I was under the impression that the terms SDD and IDS were equivalent since I mostly see references written as SDD/IDS. Now I'm not even sure that the v130 SDD I've installed is the one I need. On further reading I see that SDD allegedly will revert to IDS if it detects an older car, which I think will be the case for my 2004. If it does, I'll likely need the extra IDS utilities to download VID? I guess I'll find out when the cable arrives.
Thanks!

 

WDS was the first? incarnation.

Then along came IDS, later updated, with a web browser interface, and renamed SDD.

Version 130 will fail back to IDS (which is still there under the covers) if it is presented with an older VIN. I'm not sure where the VIN break is.

If I type in my '98 VIN at the start of a session, SDD tells me that it doesn't have symptom maps for my dinosaur, and offers a link to 'legacy' IDS. See attached.

Your 2004 is fine and SDD should read the VIN automatically.


Either IB has been screwing around with this editor again or I'm losing the plot - it won't let me post inline images

 

SDD includes IDS and will (sometimes? always?) drop back to IDS for (early?) cars or you can run IDS directly.

 

IDS will usually let you navigate where you want and skip over diagnostics that you deem irrelevant or unnecessary letting you take your own path forward.
SDD is SYMPTOM DRIVEN DIAGNOSTICS and will ask "where does it hurt? Hold my hand and we will get through this together."
You will answer questions until you satisfy the software trouble shooting tree.
It was conceived to help (stupid people) less experienced mechanics guide through logical diagnostics.

I talked to my buddies that were still at the dealer after I left and they said SDD was mostly annoying.
It became annoying if you are experienced and just want to fix the car and not jump through hoops that you know are NOT the problem.

 

Hello,
I'd like to try and explain WDS, IDS, and SDD a bit.
WDS is a standalone device that includes all the necessary hardware, including for measuring and testing.

IDS is similar to WDS, but it runs on a standard XP laptop. Since a notebook doesn't have any additional hardware built in, an external cable (e.g., a Mongoose cable or a clone cable) is required for reading/writing data. For measuring and other tasks, additional hardware is needed, such as the VCM and VMM. In this respect, IDS is similar to WDS. The application itself is the same for both.

SDD is again the notebook solution with external hardware (like IDS). However, as Motorcarman described, the SDD software is designed for the less technically inclined user, who first needs to know what the problem is to get help with troubleshooting.
Since IDS and SDD use the same hardware—the notebook and additional hardware—they've combined it into a single software interface and renamed IDS/SDD. When the software starts, the vehicle's VIN determines whether SDD can be started. From approximately model year 2003 onwards (VID-compatible vehicles), the excellent SDD software will automatically start. Older vehicles are offered the option to start IDS (which is identical to WDS software).

That's all there is to it.
I hope I've been able to help with the confusion surrounding WDS, IDS, and SDD.
Regards, Willi

 

Thank you for this, much appreciated!

 

OK so I spent some time trawling through the VID block, with the assistance of TSB 1-186. FWIW, the data location text for illustration 3 is incorrect.


The 190-byte ‘Mirror data’ contains two separate blocks of 10 bytes each, which are the ‘node’ locations. IDK why they are separate and interspersed with the data.

A node with a non-zero value contains the network address (SCP or ISO) for a specific module – e.g. Node 40 (64 decimal) contains hex ‘4A’, which is the SCP address for the SLM. Each node relates to a 5-byte data block.

The restoration data tallies with the VID block contents, so I imagine it’s just read from there and repeated. It would be helpful if jaguar hadn’t mixed hex and decimal notation, though...


ECM_SYSTEM_A : Block[0] Size[64] * not backed up in VID block CAN address 0x7E8' I’m wondering if this is the VCATS code.
There are no free node locations (although 6 free bytes), so I suspect that ‘ * not backed up in VID block’ means just that, rather than the data is missing.

Onward and upward. It’s academic until I can verify there’s no corruption, other than the apparently orphaned value ‘23’ just prior to VCATS code, although the data isn’t out-and-out garbled.

 

Well done for decoding all that so far, this really emphasises how much you need a working VID block to compare it to.

One thing you could do is, in SDD, try changing a configurable option and then see what has changed in the VID block. You could do that with options that should be stored in the SLM and see what happens. Health warning: obviously this might cause the whole thing to explode, but non working is still non working, no matter how many pieces the car is in.

I wonder if that stray 23 is another checksum and I wonder how robust the checksum is? Maybe try adding everything up in the spreadsheet and see if the first byte is 31.

 

I'm not quite ready to risk programming at the moment. I have a couple more checks to do (exciter ring & the download SDD wants to do). I have a cheap 50A PSU that should work as a maintainer. But the clone Mongoose...

I was also wondering about this, so I've tried a couple of online calculators. Turns out to be an LRC checksum:




LRC Knowledge

LRC (Longitudinal Redundancy Check) is a data verification method that calculates the two's complement of the sum of all bytes.
Features
• Simple calculation: Addition and two's complement
• Better error detection than simple checksum
• Commonly used in MODBUS ASCII protocol
• Can detect odd number of bit errors


So, providing it is correct, the '23' byte is also correct.

Robust-ish, simple and quick to calculate, but nowhere near as good as hash algorithms.


Finally! Got proper editing back. Apparently a setting in user profile (which I hadn't changed). Odd, since my phone wasn't affected. I hate computers.

 

That's good news about the checksum, although obviously to be 100% sure you need to check more than one data set. Assuming it is the correct checksum, that would mean if you can ever find a matching VID block from another car you could directly edit the non working VID block to match. (I'm sure you already know this, just thinking out loud).

I understand your caution about not wanting to risk breaking anything - I don't think I would be so patient and might instantly regret it.

 

Although I have next to zero understanding of what you're doing and how you're doing it, I sense that what you're figuring out is going to be of great value to the community, and may very possibly save X100s from the scrapyard in the future, not just yours. Hats off to you!

My plans for downloading my VID block as a backup and to share have expanded (my plans usually do!). I have a VM with XP setup on my laptop and a clone cable is in shipping, but given some of the uncertainties I've read about regarding the cheap cables and potential driver issues with the VM, I decided to get in a bit deeper and bought an old Toughbook and a Rotunda VCM1 off of ebay. Both should be delivered next week, looking forward to play with them!

 

Ok, I think I got it, see attached as .txt
I'm starting to find my way around IDS and you were right, I picked up a bunch of codes that make no sense given that I have no issues with the car.

EDIT: Want to give big thanks to motorcarman and michaelh for helping me get this!

 

Glad you have the file because it is the car as it is NOW.
The 'default' files in IDS will just be the files for the car AS BUILT from the factory.
If someone added or deleted options, they are in the AS NOW files you have.(more up to date)

 

Well a quick look at LMG's file (on the right) shows the same "missing data" as in Michaelh's VID block (on the left), with nothing significantly different - lots of "not backed up" entries. Interesting differences in the SLM data.

I'm surprised how limited the VID block is.

 

Many thanks, LMG

OK, so that pretty much confirms ' * not backed up in VID block’ means 'this data doesn't get stored in the VID block'.

The node locations for the module addresses seem to be consistent.

I've done a compare, and there are quite a few differences, as dibbit notes. Some are clear:- the missing
address in location 0x80, and its associated all-zero data means that LMG's car doesn't have the ACC module fitted (or isn't aware of it, QED).
Only 4 discrepancies in the ECM 'private' data - one of which I *think* is related to the ACC.

Some not so much:- SLM and IP. Further checking required.

I'm going to visit the car tomorrow and try to program the KTM 'as new'. Fingers crossed. If that fails I'll look to source a proper interface...

I just found a VID block screenshot from a 2003 XKR convertible in an old post, so I'll see if that gives any more insights.

 

Well, this is interesting.
I have the steering wheel controls for cruise control but, strange as it may seem, I have never once tried to engage it. I guess the joy of driving that car compels me to remain in manual throttle mode
Once the rains here stop, I will take it out and try it to see what happens.

 

Hi Lars,
You'll have the normal cruise if you have the controls. The 'Adaptive' speed control is the radar gizmo that's fitted behind the grille.

Not really an issue as most of them will be dead from corrosion by now due to their exposed location (as is the one in the car I'm looking at). New ones were the cost of a small apartment

edit: - Sorry, my warped humour - I meant that the car may not be aware of the module, not you!

 

Hah, it's going to take far greater effort than that to insult me, especially since I actually wasn't aware that module existed as an option
And I just confirmed, I don't have it in mine.

 

OK, to round this off, I compared the VID block from this 2019 thread I eventually found from jyuu:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...1/#post2055459

It's a very close match to the one in 'my' car with regard to the module data, and only 3 bytes in the 'private' area (also, the checksum is correct), so I've likely gone as far as I can to determine the VID block's validity without searching through dozens of them.

Many thanks to all who have helped.