Well, as the saying goes, there seem to always be a reason for a car to come up for sale. On the face of it, this car came up for sale because of transmission issues the prior owner did not want to deal with.

Basically, 1-2 is a bit rough, and light throttle transition between 3-4 flip-flops 3-4-3-4 at about 30 mph until warm (with more power, 3-4 transitions just fine). There is also a smell of burning oil when staying still when the car is warm. After a trip to the local dealer for a reflash/clearing of adaptations, the diagnostic is transmission fluid leaks at the extension housing and leaking pan. Before getting any deeper into anything, the smart thing seems to work towards restoring the proper fluid level in the transmission after fixing the leaks.

I looked up the procedure for replacing the seal in the service manual and parts software. The transmission stays on the car (Whew!). The seal in question prevents the fluid from coming out between the rear of the transmission case and the output flange. The mid section of the exhaust and the drive shaft have to come off. For folks in the know, do I need just a seal, or is there an upgraded output flange as well? Does the transmission need to be drained for this? Are any of the special tools really necessary?

Separately, I will need to repair the pan. The smart thing to do seem to get the whole kit from CTSC and change all the wear items, including the sleeve where the wires go in the case.

Third, the transmission will have to be refilled the right way. Any pointer on the right thermometer to use?

Thanks for any input.

 

Hi there,
Not in order of your questions... First, there are some videos of the fluid replacement procedure along with the fluid temp readings process. Some have used laser thermometers, or you could read the temp from the cars computer. Most just use the laser. Check on you tube for Rev Sam's videos.

Next, you mention repairing the pan? The transmission fluid filter is built into the pan, so you really should buy a new pan, they are cheap money. You are correct in going with the sleeve at the same time. Consider new pan bolts too. The factory bolts had small torx heads and the bolts tend to seize, the combination makes it difficult to remove sometimes. New bolts have larger torx heads.

Regarding the shift quality problems, I am surprised the dealer reflashed and reset the adaptations knowing the fluid is leaking and could be low. This will likely affect the transmission shift quality, pressures, etc, resulting in new adaptations being suspect once the work is complete. Anyhow, the 1-2 harsh shift is not an unheard of issue, and adaptations reset typically does resolve this. The hunting you describe sounds the the cold transmission torque converter hunt, and also is not unheard of. It was a common problem on the 2003 model year with the torque converter and an upgraded converter was made available. I understand the 2004 and up have the upgraded converter. I don't know how bad your hunting is, but mine does it slightly, enough for me to notice, but my wife doesn't. It goes away once warm, or if in sport mode when cold. Others say the same. My suggestion, live with it if not excessive.

Now, regarding the output flange, I wish I new the definitive answer. Jaguar put out a TSB for the s-type and XJ 2004 MY for driveline clunk downshift 2-1, and other clunking. It was to replace the output flange (and seal) with an upgraded flange to correct this. I have what I believe is the same 2-1 downshift clunk, and have been contemplating replacing the output flange. But Jaguar never included the XK8/R in the TSB, so I don't know if our cars have the upgraded flange already. I would think not, since they are all the same transmission, yet, who knows. It is 2.5 hour job according to the TSB. If you need to remove the center muffler, you might consider replacing it with an x-pipe while you have it off, if you want a little sound out the back.

If you do the output flange, I would love to see some pics during the process, as I may do this myself. I believe there are no special tools, and I don't know if the transmission fluid needs to be drained for this, but if you are going to do the pan, moot point. The new flange is less than $100 based on my research. I cannot locate a definitive part number for the Jurid coupler (rubber flex disc) however, which you probably don't need at this mileage. Just FYI, jaguar claims the Juridto be part of the entire drive shaft, and cannot be replaced except with a new driveshaft. I disbelieve that the coupler cannot be sourced. At 100,000 miles, mine seemed fine however, leading me to consider the flange as the source of my clunk.

Let us know how you make out.

 

In Reverend Sam's video re transmission pan/filter change he used an IR gun for monitoring the fluid temp on refill. Very cheap and accurate from Harbor Freight.

Sambo

 

This is probably a normal sequence: they found old software and updated it first, then did a test drive which demonstrated the reflash solved nothing. Then they put the car on a lift and figured out the leaks. I am ok with this, this is just 1hr labor charge. Once the leaks are fixed and the fluid level where it is supposed to be, I agree the adaptations might be off again. I'll do the "hard reset" procedure and go from there.

There is also this TSB:
http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/...wnshifting.pdf

This calls for applying Locktite between the output shaft and flange. My _guess_ is that there is damage to the output shaft, which cannot easily be replaced, and the way to fix it is to fill the gaps between the shaft and the flange splines with Locktite. This TSB does not refer to a new flange, just a new seal and nut. This cannot be too expensive...

 

Regarding your comment about hard reset. I don't know if you are thinking you will do the commonly mentioned hard reset where you pull the positive battery cable and touch it to ground. If that is what you are thinking, I can tell you that this does not reset the transmission adapations. The only way to reset the TCU adaptation is with the dealer scan tool and going theough the drive cycle process. This should resolve the harsh 1-2 upshift.

As far as the TSB to locktight the flange, yes, I am aware of that. I believe it was superceded by the TSB calling for the replacement of the output flange. Why go through the process of removing the flange and doing the locktight, then have to potentially do the same thing again to replace the flange? If nothing else, I would do the locktight AND a new flange. Just my opinion.

 

Another data point:

SNG Barratt - GEARBOX ASSEMBLY-AUTOMATIC-PETROL

Opening the Output Flange area, both for early and later VINs, it seems the old part has been superseded. New part# is C2C25737. I have an earlier VIN, so I guess I have the old part.

 

Ive found most every leak at the flange is blowback from the pan and elect connector. After doing those and cleaning they stay dry. But inspect the trans mount. Ive replaced a lot of them for oil destroying the rubber, and theyre cheap too. Sometimes they look fine but internally seem to allow resonance from exhaust to transmit more into the car. As attested from several owners stating the car is quieter after replacement. The ir gun is a 1* differance between the sensor and the gun. So a mute point. I dont use anything but the gun for years now that i know the diff.

 

Thanks for the input. I need to crawl under the car to find this out for myself at this point. Could I do the rear seal later without draining the transmission? The book does not say it is needed.

 

I can't be sure, but I beleive there is very little fluid loss when replacing the flange and seal. I say this because the TSB doesn't mention anything about topping off the fluid after the change out.