so If I order Mongoose, then I need to get subscription to IDS (BUY that)?? or does it come with it)

 

Hello Ledstyle,

Jaguar IDS is the proprietary automated diagnostics software available to Jaguar dealers by subscription. The European Union requires that Jaguar make the software available to independent shops. The software is designed to run on certain Panasonic "Toughbooks" but will generally run on other laptops/computers. "Bootleg"/illegal versions of the proprietary software are known to exist. ;-) However, facilitating the use of illegal software is a quick way to have a website shutdown by the powers that be.

An adapter is required to connect a computer to a car. Jaguar has designated several adapters acceptable for use with their software by dealers and independent shops. The most cost effective is the "mongoose". The Mongoose is the product of Drew Technologies of Ann Arbor Michigan, USA. The Drew folks were involved in the development of the automotive technology standard. They have their own software, quite unlike IDS, that may be used with their Mongoose. Thus, the Mongoose is generally available from authorized vendors and directly from Drew Technologies.

The Drew folks developed the hardware and drivers. It is available (unlike IDS) at reasonable cost, (about $600 USD last check). If you have questions about your genuine mongoose, the Drew folks are very helpful and will actually TALK to you on the telephone.

Clones are "black market" adapters from China. They may be assembled using parts from the various subcontractors. Or not. Quality control is clearly missing. Support from Drew in the form of drivers, etc should not be expected.

When clones are purchased instead of the "real McCoy", Drew Technologies is being "ripped-off". Reward for success and funding for further development is not being provided. Eventually, the goose that lays the golden egg dies. Plus, if your time is worth minimum wage the time wasted with a clone will make it cost more.

 

Well done, Bill!

Everyone.......

 

If one wants to turn to a consideration of morality, there are two things that ought to be considered.

First, the lockdown of IDS/SDD violates the spirit of the right to repair provisions of the Moss Magnusson Act. The rates charged by Jaguar for subscription access to the software are breathtakingly stratospheric when compared to the rates charged by other makes. There is no difference in the amount of backend infrastructure or system support required to implement the system for one make versus another. In fact, many manufacturers outsource it one particular company. Including Jaguar. Note that according to a disclaimer on the Drew Tech site, the capabilities available to non-dealer subscribers is more limited for non-EU subscribers. EU subscribers benefit from the legal requirements found in the EU directive. It is not that there is a different technology employed, but rather that the EU directive enforces greater access.

Second, the hardware inside a J2534 interface is not very involved. The circuitry found in a $50 hard disk is far more complex and costly. That $50 also includes precision motors, actuators and glass platters inside a precision machined case. There is a $200 price differential between the Jaguar specific device and the base unit. The actual difference is that one extra pin is enabled for a specific protocol only used by Jaguar.

In both cases, economists would explain the pricing behavior using price elasticity. There has been a conscious decision that the maximum benefit to the seller occurs at $X/sale based on an assumption of a specific volume.

Clearly, the existence of alternative supplies and the market in them illustrates that there is pent up consumer demand at a price point lower than the price point that the authorised vendors are attempting to support.

In short, the pricing is perceived as unfair by consumers and they are voting with their wallets. The price differential is so large as to overcome the fear of an inferior product.

Somewhere in the middle, there is a premium price that consumers would be willing to pay for the security of dealing with the branded product to the exclusion of all others. Until then, consumers are forced to one side or the other.

It has been seen that the bricking of the alternatives usually involves attempts to do a firmware upgrade of the unit. By doing so, the firmware upgrade software has full access to the hardware. It is not known what the firmware upgrade does in addition to the promise of higher interface speeds. For a consumer level user, working at a lower speed ought not be a problem.

 

In an ideal world, I could verify with the vendor. In the real world, however, we're talking about Chinese "drop-shipers"

According to the attached service bulletin (which I got from this thread, btw.) approved devices are 4 (not that it's important), and the picture
depicts one of these "generic" adapters... So, I was like, hoping, and thinking... you know

Plus, I was encouraged by this note there:
"As required under EURO-5 vehicle compliance legislation the IDS/SDD Diagnostic System is capable of
supporting additional VCI devices which will not be listed on the Jaguar Land Rover 'approved list'."

So, again, I was like, hoping, and thinking... you know... Conspiracy theories always seem plausible

I'm all for using genuine products, but 10 times price difference lights up a big red lamp about both products price policy. Especially knowing how much the only official Jaguar dealer here in Bulgaria charges for anything Jaguar-related (compared to prices of dealers in UK and US for example).

 

Hey this is new!

JLR ST512 Service Tool

https://www.mavericktechnology.co.uk...2-service-tool


Jaguars (98 to date) and Land Rovers (2005 to date)

• Jaguar & Land Rover approved device
• Operates standalone with special applications for Service Functions:
• Read and Clear Fault Codes on nearly ALL CAN bus ECUs (DTC)
• Service Interval Reset (SIR)
• Electronic Park Brake Reset (EPBR)
• Diesel Particulate Filter Dynamic Regeneration (DPFDR)
• Diesel Particulate Filter Adaption Rest (DPFDR)
• Transport Mode toggle (TM)
• Tight tolerance Mode Toggle (TTMT)
• J2534 PASS THRU -Subscription based OEM JLR Diagnostics and Programming

Covers CAN, ISO9141, SCP vehicle networks
1 metre USB Cable included as standard
Easy to update for new vehicles and model years via laptop/PC application over USB



Brochure
https://www.mavericktechnology.co.uk...nd_Held_MT.pdf

Manual
https://www.mavericktechnology.co.uk...usermanual.pdf

£595+Tax

If it's capable of reading/clearing B and C DTC's and listing the description (not just the code number) it might be the half-way point here.

Current Capabilities Listed Here https://www.mavericktechnology.co.uk..._APPS_2013.pdf

And you can use it as a pass-through device with SDD installed on a laptop?

Seems that the device is still in it's infancy, a lot of functions are not supported on the older models, which is not so useful for us with older cars.

Hopefully it will be updated to do everything. They say more functionality will be added in future...One to keep an eye on.

 

Greetings,

I need Your help. I'd like to buy Chinese version of Mongoose JLR (liks: Jaguar Land Rover JLR Mangoose or Mangoose JLR - Jaguar & Land Rover Dealer Level Diagnostics & Programming ). The problem is that I'm not sure whether this tool, and added software, going to work with my S-type or not. The info from sites mentioned above says that it works with S-types from 2005 and up. The model I owe has VIN number: SAJAA03W657N26473, the VIN decodes it as 2005 MY (right?). It's european continental 2.7 diesel version. Has anyone had any experiences with Mongoose cable and soft. working on similar S-Type version? Will Mongoose and the added software work on this S-type version?

Thanks in advance

 

Probably will but the diesel wasn't sold in USA/Canada so you'd be better asking on the UK forum.

 

Yes it will work with any S-Type, the 2005 thing is because sellers of clones don't know what they are talking about.

All Jaguars since 1996 and all Land Rovers since 2005

Edit

OK I just checked the link, they have gone and actually branded it as Mangoose





AND

kukukai from uobd2.com, I see you are watching this thread, sorry but you've been banned from jaguarforums for breaching advertising rules.

 

Thanks for replies guys. MAngoose" ... no comment.

 

I tried one of those on my 2003MY S-Type. Just plugging the thing in to the car made every single warning light come on on the dash, couldn't get the transmission out of Park or do anything with it. Fortunately disconnecting and grounding the battery reset everything (except for the CEL ) and made the car functional again.

 

it can the mangoose software work like pass thru on avdi hardware ?

 

What if I change my location to Europe on the sdd software or use a European vin number. Will I have the same access to module programming as the European have? Just a thought.

 

Nope.

The detection is done using ip address.

The workaround would be to use a european proxy service over a vpn.

 

What if I was using it offline?

 

If you are using a version that does not require you to be online to function, and you are offline ... then no effect.

The recommended version numbers should be somewhere in the preceding posts.

 

So if I pay for a subscription will I be able to use the jlr mongoose for module programming on my 2000 xk8, or do I need to get a vcm. That legacy tool is extremely limited.

 

Well, I joined the dark side, and got me one of those clones. I just tested it and it seems to work, see attachment. I installed JLR v134 that came with it both on a virtual machine and on a real laptop. The later hasn't got enough RAM (yet), though, so there it's not really functional.

Apparently I have problems with the lights-leveling system and my audio unit. Haven't noticed anything wrong with any them, but will investigate a bit when I have some time.

The weirdest part is that on the data collection diagram, the ECM unit is displayed as "present, but not responding", i.e. with a round, red X mark. Is that really possible? Car runs fine and a generic OBDII scanner I tried doesn't complain about anything.

P.S.
JLR v134 that I got, comes with a crack that tricks JLR into not wanting any authentication, neither off-, nor online.

From what I see so far, JLR actually seems to be based on a Tomcat application server, so most probably the crack just replaces the authentication servlet or lifts of some servlet filters.

A warning note - before applying cracks, check them with an antivirus software. Mine had some lame virus which I removed before applying the crack.

 

Bear in mind those codes could be 10 years old.

 

Not quite. I wiped everything once I got the JLR connected so, these codes came back.

My main riddle now is about the missing communication with the ECM. Is that the ECU or something else? Because as far as I can tell, the ECU is working. I mean the car starts and runs, and behaves normal.