Phoenix, Arizona
Jaguar North Scottsdale Phoenix AZ

I own a 06 S Type 3.0. It has 107k miles - I've owned the car since 31k miles. It's in immaculate shape........

1. On 6/27/23, I took my S Type in for a diagnostic assessment. The gas gauge was reading empty/needle not moving - full tank of gas. I drove my car 40+ miles to the closets Jaguar Service Dealership for the diagnostic service. I was told it would take 2 hours so I waited at the dealership. Roughly 2.5 hours later, I was called and informed the assessment was finished. I returned to the service office and spoke with the Service Advisor who shared with me their findings. I acknowledged their findings and told them I would get back to them tomorrow. The Service Advisor gave key me my key so that I could leave the dealership. PROBLEM: I entered my car and put the key in the ignition. After starting the car and placing the transmission into D (drive), the car moved forward and began to "limp" (accelerate / slow down), etc. I realized I could not drive home on the freeway the car was unsafe. I returned the car to the dealership and asked them to find out why my car was "limping'. When I brought the vehicle to the dealership/service department there was NO problem with the car. This problem began after the diagnostic(s) service for the gas gauge problem was completed. Bottomline, the service department kept my car for over 3 weeks attempting to find out why my car was limping. Because they could not find the cause, they blamed another service provider for this problem. Finally, they washed their hands of the problem and told me to have my car "towed" off the property because it was unsafe to drive. NOTE: I did pay for the diagnostic service.

2. My car has been with another service provider for the past 3 weeks who also has attempted to find the cause of this problem "limping". I have been told limited code errors have been displayed. They have reviewed the throttle body, wiring (moisture), accelerator sensor, battery, as well as many other setting on the car. I also shared information from this forum regarding S Type "limping".

NOTE: The car always starts with NO problem. You can rev the engine while standing still and the car seems normal. However, the moment you place the transmission into Drive, performance fails and LIMP mode is activated.

I'm at my wits end and don't know who to turn to for help with this problem.

Any thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks John

 

Suspect #1 is battery

Read threads about battery & how to check

 

JagV8

Thanks for the quick response. We checked and changed the battery. Still have the same problem Limp Mode....

Thanks again.

 

Without actual codes we have no idea?
Have to start there.

Does this other service provider have a working SDD like the dealer?
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Do you feel like the second workshop is trying to help and they have more options, or do you think they've tried all they can and they're at a dead end? Nothing wrong with asking them (nicely) if you're not sure. If the former, it's up to you if you allow them more time... keep in mind it may take a long time as most shops only have a certain amount of diagnosis time in between their bread and butter work (services), and as your problem gets trickier and trickier it gets harder for the shop to allocate time to it. A good way around that is to give them a blank cheque and tell them to spend as much time as they need to, of course that depends on your financial situation and how much you love the car.

If the latter and they're at a dead end, ask them for a list of everything they've done and take it to a third workshop. Some workshops are great at finding tricky issues and other workshops are just there to pump out services, there's nothing wrong with either style of business but it sounds like you need the first one and it might take a while to find.

I've only been a part of this forum for a month or two but so far all the threads I've seen like yours jump straight to blaming the "incompetent" mechanics and threatening legal action, which is a great way to get people to stop helping. Try to be patient, it sucks I know... I'm waiting on my fifth replacement windscreen since November, the last four genuine Jag windscreens have had severe distortion that's rendered the car almost undriveable. There's nothing the windscreen guys can do, they're at the mercy of Jag's Q.A

 

Some more things to check:

1. that the 2 small bolts under the car which hold the gear shift cable to the trans are present and not loose - they are known to fall out or loosen

2. that the trans is properly filled (not quite as easy to check or do) & hopefully not too old (but I don't think old fluid could cause the fault)

3. that the idle fuel trims are OK & all the OBD monitors are set (results in pending code P1111 instead of P1000 - you always have just one of those two)

 

Thanks for responding....

Not sure where you got this perspective: "I've seen like yours jump straight to blaming the "incompetent" mechanics and threatening legal action"?

Again, thank you for your words of wisedom.

 

Yes post back with codes if possible.
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Update: 10/10/2023 - My car has been with another shop going on two months. I trust these gentlemen are doing the best they can given the circumstance. They did find:

• Problem with the "Clock Spring" not managing/reporting a full "turn" radius of the steering wheel. They replaced the Clock Spring resolved that problem as well as the error message associated with that problem.

However, the limp mode reoccurred. The Clock Spring replacement did not resolve the limp problem. Nonetheless, we did get a whole new set of error codes: U0300 / U2202 / B2141
Interesting revelation, if you remove the FUSE supporting the Clock Spring, the car runs and drives normal - no limp. Place the fuse back and the car returns to limp mode. The technician feels a FLASH update to the ABS Module might reset the communications necessary to resolve this problem based on the new error codes.

ANY THOUGHTS OUT THERE. Also, I need to find someone here in Phoenix AZ that can provide the FLASH Update......Any suggestions.

Thus far: Replaced the Battery and replace the Clock Spring...........

 

I don't see the ABS needing a reflash. They're basically guessing.

 

Which fuse is this? Panel and number, please.

Edit: I dug through the wiring diagrams and couldn't find a common fuse related to the clock spring:

http://www.jagrepair.com/JaguarSType...OBDIIcodes.htm


Search for "cassette" or "FC117" to see all circuits on the clockspring. Here's what I found:

Cruise control switches
Audio control switches
Steering wheel switch lighting
Horn
Driver's airbag

 

Any thoughts about the new error codes:

U0300: "Some devices must be configured with specific software, serial numbers, vehicle options, or other information. If a device was not properly configured after installation that the device may set the appropriate communication Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC)s. No external circuit diagnosis is involved. The DTC sets when the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is not configured properly"

U2202: "Jaguar Communication error to PCM"

B2141: "Reprogram Module (Flashing) New Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Needs programming Incorrect Vehicle Identification (VID) configuration. Configuration Failure Module Configuration Failure"

 

Does the car have a different ECU?
Did anyone try to flash the ECU?
If the VID is screwed up you will need to fix that. This is not a common or even reported problem so I wonder what was done to the car?
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+1 on knowing if the PCM was replaced.

The DTCs listed require checking the CAN system for corroded or poor connections using pin tests.

Are there any signs of water or moisture in the boot near the battery when it was replaced? Also, with the ignition OFF, use a voltmeter to read the available voltage across the battery terminals. There should be a minimum of 12.6 volts available.

 

ROOKIE HERE, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND ALL THE ACRONYMS USED IN THIS STREAM:

What is the difference between an ECM and a ECU? What Do ECM and ECU Stand For? ECM stands for Engine Control Module, and ECU is short for Engine Control Unit. These two acronyms represent the same component and are used interchangeably.

At this time NO flash activity has been taken......... will share this information with the technician.

- Can't find a definition for VID????
- No PCM has not been replaced

 

ECM (Jaguar's term) is properly (by standards) PCM.
U is generic (u=unit), so could mean any of the 10+ ECUs (aka modules) in the car.

VID is probably short for Vehicle ID.

My signature has a lot of acronym definitions.

 

• PCM - Powertrain Control Module
• TCM - Transmission Control Module
• CAN - Controller Area Network
• BUS - Databus
• CATS - Computer Active Technology Suspension
• PATS - Passive Anti Theft System

There are other Jaguar specific acronyms and Jaguar specific DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes), which are listed in the 'sticky' section of each forum.

 

Test, test. Is this working?

Still hoping to hear which fuse you pulled. Since it dramatically changed the behavior of the car, this should provide a vital clue.

 

Yes post the fuse because what you said is very confusing?
The car can operate without the clock spring even being installed so I can't see how it can cause a limp home or restricted performance?
But as always I am willing to learn!

Yes many terms for the same thing. ECU=PCM=ECM. We are just seeing a bit of a language barrier here. Sorry for the confusion!

The VID block is the basic list of what the car came with from Jaguar. A copy is held in every module and the system makes sure ALL the VID info is the same for ALL the modules. You can imagine what chaos would happen if one module thought the car was made with certain options but a different module says no this is the as built information and it's different.

But let's drop this as you are now VERY deep inside SDD which I don't think you want to get into?
Attached is some information about the VID and how it's used by the system.

If you can get the car hooked up to an SDD it will tell you if and how many times the PCM has been flashed if at all. Otherwise it's hard to tell. Now I do also have a pretty good after market scanner and even it will record how many ECU or PCM flashes have been done.

So long story is IF the VID block is corrupted it must be reset/repaired using SDD. That's assuming (I know bad habit!) that it can be fixed. But the good news is yes it can be fixed so don't give up yet!

But again I must stress the VID block just does not get corrupted? Something must have been done? Note your errors codes all contain the same statements? Configuration is wrong or not done. Module needs reprogramming. These type of errors come from people plugging in modules and not configuring them correctly.
Not really any other way for this to happen?
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10/12/2023 Update: Response to last request for information: On 6/27//2023, the last service administered by the dealership was just prior to this problem. Simply diagnosing why the gas gauge needle was sitting on empty. 2.5 hours later, the service advisor explained their findings and I was given my car key to leave the property, As I began to drive off the property, I could not leave because "limp mode" was activated. I IMMEDIATELY returned the car to the dealership and ask that they fix this newly created problem...... 3 weeks later they told me they could not find the problem, therefore, they could not fix the problem. On 7/14/2023, they asked me to have my car towed off the property because it was unsafe to drive. I did not have this problem when I drove the car for the gas gauge diagnosis.