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Trans issues after trip to ***********

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:17 PM
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Default Trans issues after trip to ***********

So I took my STR to the dealership because it had the 2nd-1st lurch and a light rhythmic rumbling between 50-70 MPH and I had read some posts on here about a TSB that provided a software update to correct this exact problem. The service rep had no idea what I was talking about and I suppose i should have looked up the exact TSB number to give them, but I sort of felt like that was the tech's job and furthermore assumed he would do that before doing anything. Not sure exactly what they did, but now that I have my car back the transmission is worse with the original problem not resolved and a whole host of new problems that did not previously exist (hard up shifts, slipping, even harder 1st to 2nd lurch, and a 3rd to 2nd lurch). Not sure how to proceed. I called them back on my way home and the service rep said that thee were probably existing issues that the adaptations were hiding, but that sounds like BS to me and I was too angry at the time to have a civil discussion to try to get to the bottom of it. I am not sure whether they are incompetent or intentionally screwed something up so I would have to come back, but I no longer trust the service department at my local-ish (hour and a half away) dealership and am furious that I just paid them $150 to make my car worse. What should I do?
 
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by damurna7 View Post
So what should I do?
Use paragraphs. To many complaints in run on typing.
 
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2018, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by joycesjag View Post
Use paragraphs. To many complaints in run on typing.
WOW! Thank you joycesjag for that helpful and insightful post! All of my issues are now solved and furthermore I feel like I have become a better person having read it. Probably need to sticky this one for posterity.

On an unrelated topic that seems worthy of a fresh paragraph I want to party with you! I bet you are an absolute delight to hang out with.
 
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by damurna7 View Post
I bet you are an absolute delight to hang out with.
Actually I am a blast to hang out with!

You are welcome on my insightful post. Now if you would take my advice in future threads. I bet you would receive more responses to your questions, just saying.....


Good luck and Happy New sir.







 
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by damurna7 View Post
the service rep said that they were probably existing issues that the adaptations were hiding, but that sounds like BS to me

Hard to say, but either way it sounds like poor customer service on their part. If the service rep knew this could happen, he should have warned you beforehand.

Did he suggest the transmission would settle down once it figures out new adaptations? If so, ask how long you should wait and if there are any special procedures to help the relearn procedure. IIRC, there was a certain protocol that helps, such as drive at X speed for a specified amount of time, with certain acceleration and deceleration patterns thrown in for good measure, followed by stopping at your nearest In & Out Burger for a Double/Double.

Back to your dealership brouhaha, you've got a legitimate gripe that the original symptoms are worse, plus new ones were created. However, if you go in there and pull a Khruschev and start banging your shoe on the counter, don't expect any positive outcome. Take a deep breath, and talk to the service manager as one human to another. Don't demand a thing. Simply explain how the situation got worse after they worked on the car, and you'd like to give them the opportunity to rewrite the ending of the story.

Version A is they stonewall you, and you can't help but mention to anybody who asks about the horrible experience you had at Stickett & Twist Jaguar Ltd.

Version B is the much preferred outcome where you tell your friends about the great customer service there and how they owned up to the issue (could happen to anybody) and made it right. Gently remind them Version B is much preferable for everybody, especially them. No threats to go online and blast them, just offer them the chance to do what is right. If he hems and haws, the poor guy needs some time to mull it over. Politely ask for the owner's contact info and then gracefully walk away. If you don't get the answer you want right away, don't keep trying with that guy. He may not want to budge, so no point haranguing him. Thank him for his time and walk away with the owner's contact info. If he won't give you the info, no threats. You can get the info from other sources. You only want to gently cast the hint of your next step. Don't call the owner just yet. Let the service rep stew for a few hours, maybe even a day or two. With any luck, he will call you back and you won't have to escalate the process up to the owner of the dealership. Remember, no banging your shoe on the counter. You want to portray yourself as a customer they want to keep, not one they will be glad to lose.

And on a related note, reread your response to JoycesJag. That is a good example of how you do NOT want to respond with the service rep at the dealership. And don't mind JoycesJag. He's old and cranky like me, but he gets like that when his undies ride up and resist all efforts to free them. You'd think he's learn to deal with it by now like I have...
 
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:15 AM
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How many kilometres/miles on the vehicle?

Has the gearbox been serviced with a new pan/filter and ZF fluid? If not, did the Technician check the fluid level using the procedure in the attached file?
 
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2018, 05:13 PM
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Another point if you had a service did they supply you with the correct oil. It has to be

ZF-LIFEGUARDFLUIDS have been specifically harmonised to each ZF automatic gearbox. They ensure smooth running and optimal shifting characteristics, minimise wear on components subjected to a high level of stress and extend the service life of the gearbox when changed regularly. Or an equivalentequivalent, if an normal gearbox oil has been used it can cause the symptoms that you describe
 
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:39 PM
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Alright! So a few days have passed and here is what I have learned:

1). The service advisor I spoke to either did not know what they were talking about or were being intentionally misleading to get me to order more service. I asked specifically if clearing the stored adaptations caused the problems to worsen if relearning would at least get me back to where I was and she said "probably not".

2). The tech did not follow procedure. I read the pertinent service bulletin myself and found that there was indeed a relearn procedure to be done after the reflash. I know they didn't do it because it requires driving the car and they would have had to drive past the windows to the service waiting area where I was sitting to get out of the shop. The first time I saw my car emerge from the shop was when they declared it finished. Again...no mention was ever made to me of a relearn procedure and it was insinuated that whatever new problems had emerged were here to stay and would need to be diagnosed.

My takeaway is that my local Jag dealer cannot be trusted. They are at best incompetent and at worst dishonest. I have historically done all but the most involved of my vehicle maintenance myself, but decided to entrust this one to the dealer since it was a TSB issue. Never again. I suppose my next quest will be the software and hardware needed to handle these kinds of issues on my own.

It would have probably been better to have performed the relearn patterns before I drove the car two hours in heavy traffic, but whatever. I did it and it seems that this was probably the issue. The lurch is almost completely gone (only notice it because I am looking for it so hard) and the rumble is significantly better as well. Most importantly all of the slipping and hard shifting has ceased and things are back to slightly better than normal. I am hoping that it will continue to improve, but I can live with where things stand at the moment.

To answer some of your questions the car has 150,000 and some change miles on it. I had the transmission flushed, replaced pan and filter, and refilled a few months ago (a procedure the dealership quoted me a cool $1,200 to perform. Spoiler alert...I didn't have them do it). That made a significant difference, but not as much as I had hoped for which is why I went in for the software update.

Thanks for the replies! I have learned so much (including that the formatting on this forum requires a page break rather than an indent for paragraphs lol).
 
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by damurna7 View Post
Alright! So a few days have passed and here is what I have learned:

1). The service advisor I spoke to either did not know what they were talking about or were being intentionally misleading to get me to order more service. I asked specifically if clearing the stored adaptations caused the problems to worsen if relearning would at least get me back to where I was and she said "probably not".

2). The tech did not follow procedure. I read the pertinent service bulletin myself and found that there was indeed a relearn procedure to be done after the reflash. I know they didn't do it because it requires driving the car and they would have had to drive past the windows to the service waiting area where I was sitting to get out of the shop. The first time I saw my car emerge from the shop was when they declared it finished. Again...no mention was ever made to me of a relearn procedure and it was insinuated that whatever new problems had emerged were here to stay and would need to be diagnosed.

My takeaway is that my local Jag dealer cannot be trusted. They are at best incompetent and at worst dishonest. I have historically done all but the most involved of my vehicle maintenance myself, but decided to entrust this one to the dealer since it was a TSB issue. Never again. I suppose my next quest will be the software and hardware needed to handle these kinds of issues on my own.

It would have probably been better to have performed the relearn patterns before I drove the car two hours in heavy traffic, but whatever. I did it and it seems that this was probably the issue. The lurch is almost completely gone (only notice it because I am looking for it so hard) and the rumble is significantly better as well. Most importantly all of the slipping and hard shifting has ceased and things are back to slightly better than normal. I am hoping that it will continue to improve, but I can live with where things stand at the moment.

To answer some of your questions the car has 150,000 and some change miles on it. I had the transmission flushed, replaced pan and filter, and refilled a few months ago (a procedure the dealership quoted me a cool $1,200 to perform. Spoiler alert...I didn't have them do it). That made a significant difference, but not as much as I had hoped for which is why I went in for the software update.

Thanks for the replies! I have learned so much (including that the formatting on this forum requires a page break rather than an indent for paragraphs lol).
You are 10000000% correct about not trusting a Jag dealership unless Brutal or NbCat was working on your car.
The software update should have been done a long time ago and not knowing the history on the car it is a simple matter to look on the Jag computer and see what was done. The lurch has to do with both software and hardware as the new software applies pressure in different parts of the transmission.

Did you actually have a true "flush" done on the system? That is not the usual recommendation on an older transmission for many reasons you can read on the net.

I always have taken the TSB or any info I could when was under warranty and they still cannot get it right.

A short story to make you feel that you are not alone.

I went to the number 1 (so-called) Jag dealer in Dallas. They, under warranty, replaced my back driver's side door lock actuator. Not only did they not get part of the outside handle screwed back properly so that it stuck out, but I was getting a good amount of water, every time it rained on the carpet of the rear driver's side floor. I knew what was wrong and quickly took things apart and saw they had ripped my water shield and clearly there was a line of evidence there. I went and bought one, instead of screwing with them and took the detailed time to take off the old butyl rubber and then in detail made sure it was adhered right and that was that.

About 6 months after that, the rear passenger door lock actuator went out and so back to them for extended warranty repair. Before I went, I called Jag USA and explained what had previously happened. They called the dealership first and due to the way I complained the regional rep for Jag met me there along with the GM of the entire dealership, the head of the service dept. the idiot service rep and the actual tech that was going to work on my car and explained the problem and to make sure they did not tear up the water shield and make sure it was back correctly.

Pick up my car and when I went to wash it (their courtesy wash leaves much to be desired) and low and behold I had a leak on that side. I took off the interior trim and there was the water shield with zero adhesion to the bottom part of the door. It took me about 5 minutes to fix it correctly. I called the GM of the dealership and all he could say was that he was glad that I fixed it.

The next time I had a service with something to do with a door the idiot service rep. (just a salesman to arrogantly get money out of you) said that he was not going to pay for another water shield as if I caused the problem. I told him to go f... himself and said why would I pay for something that they tore up and would damage my car? He said there is only so much they can do. I could go on and on about them,whether it was fixing my gas door and never testing to see that it would open which it would not or leaving the undercarriage off my car or tearing up window trim or breaking my leaper and trying to secretly fix it with some wire and on and on and on.

If I had to use the dealership again, without an extended warranty, I would just give the car away.

On the subject of joycesjag Rick is one of the nicest and most helpful people on the forum. You would do well by him for advice and all the work he has done on his Jag, along with many photos and even some live streaming feeds. He was trying to be helpful about how best to get help here and if you had also asked him his thoughts, I am sure he would have good ones from experience. I know in no-trump, your experience was and is frustrating, but Rick (joycesjag) is one of the really good guys and does not deserve abuse.

Back to your transmission, I would assume nothing good from the dealership and would call Jag USA and get them involved with what sounds like- well I am not sure what it sounds like except some effort to extract more money from you and arrogantly blame you in some way.

Tom in Dallas/Plano
 
 
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