Clutch Fluid?
#1
Clutch Fluid?
I like this regimen, I'm going to start doing it at every fill-up. question: How do you check your Clutch Fluid????
Thanks!
Thanks!
Last edited by Cadillac; 10-01-2010 at 03:18 AM. Reason: You replied and old thread and the member you quoted is no longer posting that's why this is better way to go
#2
The brake fluid reservoir is shared by both the clutch hydraulic system and the brake hydraulic system. Therefore, checking the brake fluid reservoir level will take care of both the brakes and clutch.
You should also check the *color* of the brake fluid while you're at it. When it's new, it will have a very light color - like chardonnay. As it ages, it turns brown like maple syrup and then even black like molasses. Part of the cause is probably from the master cylinder seals wearing and actually grinding into dust that dissolves into the solution, and part is probably due to the hygroscopic nature of most brake fluids. http://www.google.com/search?q=brake+fluid+hydroscopic
Old brake fluid will result in a mushy-feeling brake pedal. This will effect the clutch pedal too, but I expect that it won't be very noticeable there.
The solution is to flush the brake and clutch lines periodically. I don't recall that Jaguar actually has a service interval for this, but I would argue that the ideal interval would depend on how and *where* you use the car. In my climate - the northeastern US - it's very humid, so brake fluid picks up moisture fairly quickly. I'll feel a difference at the pedal in two year old brake fluid, and have changed the fluid at this interval in every car that I've had over the past couple of decades. By the time brake fluid gets to be five years old, the brake pedal might end up feeling like that in every GM car that I've ever driven - like stepping into a pile of mashed potatoes. Or something.
On the other hand, my Dad is in a very dry climate in Colorado. He can probably get away with a five year fluid changing interval. I expect that your Arizona climate and car is similar. I also expect that, like most people's cars, your brake and clutch fluid has never been changed.
So check the level, and check the color. And get it flushed with new fluid if you're not sure if it has ever been done.
You should also check the *color* of the brake fluid while you're at it. When it's new, it will have a very light color - like chardonnay. As it ages, it turns brown like maple syrup and then even black like molasses. Part of the cause is probably from the master cylinder seals wearing and actually grinding into dust that dissolves into the solution, and part is probably due to the hygroscopic nature of most brake fluids. http://www.google.com/search?q=brake+fluid+hydroscopic
Old brake fluid will result in a mushy-feeling brake pedal. This will effect the clutch pedal too, but I expect that it won't be very noticeable there.
The solution is to flush the brake and clutch lines periodically. I don't recall that Jaguar actually has a service interval for this, but I would argue that the ideal interval would depend on how and *where* you use the car. In my climate - the northeastern US - it's very humid, so brake fluid picks up moisture fairly quickly. I'll feel a difference at the pedal in two year old brake fluid, and have changed the fluid at this interval in every car that I've had over the past couple of decades. By the time brake fluid gets to be five years old, the brake pedal might end up feeling like that in every GM car that I've ever driven - like stepping into a pile of mashed potatoes. Or something.
On the other hand, my Dad is in a very dry climate in Colorado. He can probably get away with a five year fluid changing interval. I expect that your Arizona climate and car is similar. I also expect that, like most people's cars, your brake and clutch fluid has never been changed.
So check the level, and check the color. And get it flushed with new fluid if you're not sure if it has ever been done.
#3
Thanks James! I checked my brake fluid and the reservoir is full but the fluid is greenish black. However, when I dipped my finger in it the fluid on my finger was yellowish and clear. The fluid did not look black on my finger, but in the reservoir it looks black.
Anyway, I'm going to bleed my brakes tomorrow. Steve Hannes of the Jaguar Motor Project blog points to Castrol or Penzoil Super Dot 4 brake fluid for the X-Type.
Maybe I'll take some pics and post a quick write up on bleeding the brakes.
Anyway, I'm going to bleed my brakes tomorrow. Steve Hannes of the Jaguar Motor Project blog points to Castrol or Penzoil Super Dot 4 brake fluid for the X-Type.
Maybe I'll take some pics and post a quick write up on bleeding the brakes.
#4
Based on what you're seeing in the reservoir, I would change out that fluid.
Two more points:
1) You said "bleed;" I said "flush." That's not the same thing. Flushing involves completely replacing the existing fluid with fresh stuff. Bleeding is merely to push out air bubbles at the caliper. You really want to flush the system.
2) I've had great luck with a pressure bleeder. See this old page that I wrote up about the experience on my last car and on my project car:
http://www.jimrothe.com/volvo/clutch_bleeding.html
It makes such short work of the job that I'd actually recommend holding off until you can order one. It's not essential, but it's really a huge help.
Bleeder #100, with the included adapter #1100, is the right one for our cars.
Two more points:
1) You said "bleed;" I said "flush." That's not the same thing. Flushing involves completely replacing the existing fluid with fresh stuff. Bleeding is merely to push out air bubbles at the caliper. You really want to flush the system.
2) I've had great luck with a pressure bleeder. See this old page that I wrote up about the experience on my last car and on my project car:
http://www.jimrothe.com/volvo/clutch_bleeding.html
It makes such short work of the job that I'd actually recommend holding off until you can order one. It's not essential, but it's really a huge help.
Bleeder #100, with the included adapter #1100, is the right one for our cars.
#5
Thanks for the info on bleeding tools, cool page! Just to get the terms straight, The Power Bleeder will completely flush the brake & clutch systems? So power bleeding is flushing?
So it looks like this one costs $55.00.
<http://store.motiveproducts.com/euro...-0100-p34.aspx > Is this one correct?
I agree, well worth it, esp. when you can buy different adapters for different cars.
I read about the clutch problems on your Volvo, but that couldn't happen here, right????
Clearly the brake and clutch have their own separate reservoirs in the Volvo, unlike the X, but I guess you've never had trouble with the clutch collapsing/ not returning to the start position? Sounds like it could be pretty quick & easy with the pressure bleeder, I'd probably flush it once a year for good measure.
So it looks like this one costs $55.00.
<http://store.motiveproducts.com/euro...-0100-p34.aspx > Is this one correct?
I agree, well worth it, esp. when you can buy different adapters for different cars.
I read about the clutch problems on your Volvo, but that couldn't happen here, right????
Clearly the brake and clutch have their own separate reservoirs in the Volvo, unlike the X, but I guess you've never had trouble with the clutch collapsing/ not returning to the start position? Sounds like it could be pretty quick & easy with the pressure bleeder, I'd probably flush it once a year for good measure.
Last edited by Patterson; 10-03-2010 at 05:21 PM.
#6
My point was that you should completely flush the system with new fluid.
So it looks like this one costs $55.00.
<http://store.motiveproducts.com/euro...-0100-p34.aspx > Is this one correct?
<http://store.motiveproducts.com/euro...-0100-p34.aspx > Is this one correct?
I agree, well worth it, esp. when you can buy different adapters for different cars.
I read about the clutch problems on your Volvo, but that couldn't happen here, right????
I read about the clutch problems on your Volvo, but that couldn't happen here, right????
Clearly the brake and clutch have their own separate reservoirs in the Volvo,
unlike the X, but I guess you've never had trouble with the clutch collapsing/ not returning to the start position? Sounds like it could be pretty quick & easy with the pressure bleeder, I'd probably flush it once a year for good measure.
#7
The "Power Bleeder" is just this manufacturer's brand name. More generically, this is known as pressure bleeding. I don't want to get too caught up in the semantics of the terms. I do see people using the terms interchangeably, but my idea of brake bleeding comes from what I see at the race track. Some of my friends do SCCA road racing, where brakes get hot enough to glow bright orange during night-time endurance races. They make a point of bleeding a little bit of brake fluid out of the calipers after every run - even 20 minute practice sessions. That's not a complete flush of the system.
My point was that you should completely flush the system with new fluid.
That's the one!
It didn't happen to me when I did my X-Type. However, my clutch pedal did exhibit a peculiar "half-limp" quality when I finished the job. For the first half of it's travel, there was no resistance. There was enough pressure to engage the clutch, and full pressure for the entire length of pedal travel came back as soon as I moved the car off of the lift. (As an aside, I'm not a pro mechanic, but have access to a lift at my job.) This was a repeatable problem with an easy, repeatable fix, so I'm not concerned about it ever leaving me stranded. Or anyone else, for that matter.
Actually, no - there was a single reservoir in that car. The difference is apparently in the design of the clutch master cylinder. My best guess is that the Volvo's master cylinder did not have a return spring on the piston, and relies on the slave cylinder to push the master cylinder piston back. My assumption is that there is a return spring in our master cylinders, thus eliminating this collapsed pedal problem.
That's probably overkill in your climate, but it can't hurt.
My point was that you should completely flush the system with new fluid.
That's the one!
It didn't happen to me when I did my X-Type. However, my clutch pedal did exhibit a peculiar "half-limp" quality when I finished the job. For the first half of it's travel, there was no resistance. There was enough pressure to engage the clutch, and full pressure for the entire length of pedal travel came back as soon as I moved the car off of the lift. (As an aside, I'm not a pro mechanic, but have access to a lift at my job.) This was a repeatable problem with an easy, repeatable fix, so I'm not concerned about it ever leaving me stranded. Or anyone else, for that matter.
Actually, no - there was a single reservoir in that car. The difference is apparently in the design of the clutch master cylinder. My best guess is that the Volvo's master cylinder did not have a return spring on the piston, and relies on the slave cylinder to push the master cylinder piston back. My assumption is that there is a return spring in our master cylinders, thus eliminating this collapsed pedal problem.
That's probably overkill in your climate, but it can't hurt.
Does this sound like master cyl? Area under master looks damp. If Trans needs to come out I won't fix it. Thx for any advise. I'm working on mine real time so any input is appreciated ASAP and where's best place to get parts cheap? Calls ok since I'm doing this now. 706-392-2580. Thx. Mark
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#8
My son drives a 02 5 speed 2.5 Xtype that had the clutch fail. Half limp, no pressure, can't start it, no codes.
Does this sound like master cyl? Area under master looks damp. If Trans needs to come out I won't fix it. Thx for any advise. I'm working on mine real time so any input is appreciated ASAP and where's best place to get parts cheap? Calls ok since I'm doing this now. 706-392-2580. Thx. Mark
Does this sound like master cyl? Area under master looks damp. If Trans needs to come out I won't fix it. Thx for any advise. I'm working on mine real time so any input is appreciated ASAP and where's best place to get parts cheap? Calls ok since I'm doing this now. 706-392-2580. Thx. Mark
If the area under the master cylinder is damp AND you have "no pedal" or a "half-limp" one, then yes, go ahead and replace that master cylinder. Local parts store, wait a day or two for the warehouse to stock the part. You're not going to save enough money to justify any further wait for a cheaper, online supplier. Or you could do a Google search.
#9
You have a few things going on there. "Can't start it. no codes" This car requires the clutch pedal to be depressed in order to start the car. Did you step on the clutch pedal when you tried to start it?
If the area under the master cylinder is damp AND you have "no pedal" or a "half-limp" one, then yes, go ahead and replace that master cylinder. Local parts store, wait a day or two for the warehouse to stock the part. You're not going to save enough money to justify any further wait for a cheaper, online supplier. Or you could do a Google search.
If the area under the master cylinder is damp AND you have "no pedal" or a "half-limp" one, then yes, go ahead and replace that master cylinder. Local parts store, wait a day or two for the warehouse to stock the part. You're not going to save enough money to justify any further wait for a cheaper, online supplier. Or you could do a Google search.
#10
Update and request for more advise
The area under the coolant tank on top of Trans housing seems slightly damp with some fluid that doesn't dry up. Could be antifreeze I guess but can't find any leaks on floor or in the lines under the booster on firewall. I bought a clutch master cylinder to start with. Is there any checks I can do to verify its the master? Any easier way to get the master cylinder out? Take pedal assly out to swap master? Any links or video showing master swap? How to bleed the clutch master cyl? Any help appreciated here guys and girls. Thx. Mark
#11
Finally on Xtype full time and pushed hard and quick on clutch and turned key and car started. Guess I didn't push hard enough. I have no clutch though not enough to put it in gear, period.
The area under the coolant tank on top of Trans housing seems slightly damp with some fluid that doesn't dry up. Could be antifreeze I guess but can't find any leaks on floor or in the lines under the booster on firewall. I bought a clutch master cylinder to start with. Is there any checks I can do to verify its the master? Any easier way to get the master cylinder out? Take pedal assly out to swap master? Any links or video showing master swap? How to bleed the clutch master cyl? Any help appreciated here guys and girls. Thx. Mark
The area under the coolant tank on top of Trans housing seems slightly damp with some fluid that doesn't dry up. Could be antifreeze I guess but can't find any leaks on floor or in the lines under the booster on firewall. I bought a clutch master cylinder to start with. Is there any checks I can do to verify its the master? Any easier way to get the master cylinder out? Take pedal assly out to swap master? Any links or video showing master swap? How to bleed the clutch master cyl? Any help appreciated here guys and girls. Thx. Mark
#12
Finally on Xtype full time and pushed hard and quick on clutch and turned key and car started. Guess I didn't push hard enough. I have no clutch though not enough to put it in gear, period.
The area under the coolant tank on top of Trans housing seems slightly damp with some fluid that doesn't dry up. Could be antifreeze I guess but can't find any leaks on floor or in the lines under the booster on firewall. I bought a clutch master cylinder to start with. Is there any checks I can do to verify its the master? Any easier way to get the master cylinder out? Take pedal assly out to swap master? Any links or video showing master swap? How to bleed the clutch master cyl? Any help appreciated here guys and girls. Thx. Mark
The area under the coolant tank on top of Trans housing seems slightly damp with some fluid that doesn't dry up. Could be antifreeze I guess but can't find any leaks on floor or in the lines under the booster on firewall. I bought a clutch master cylinder to start with. Is there any checks I can do to verify its the master? Any easier way to get the master cylinder out? Take pedal assly out to swap master? Any links or video showing master swap? How to bleed the clutch master cyl? Any help appreciated here guys and girls. Thx. Mark
#13
2.5 v6 petrol manual
The brake fluid reservoir is shared by both the clutch hydraulic system and the brake hydraulic system. Therefore, checking the brake fluid reservoir level will take care of both the brakes and clutch.
You should also check the *color* of the brake fluid while you're at it. When it's new, it will have a very light color - like chardonnay. As it ages, it turns brown like maple syrup and then even black like molasses. Part of the cause is probably from the master cylinder seals wearing and actually grinding into dust that dissolves into the solution, and part is probably due to the hygroscopic nature of most brake fluids. brake fluid hydroscopic - Google Search
Old brake fluid will result in a mushy-feeling brake pedal. This will effect the clutch pedal too, but I expect that it won't be very noticeable there.
The solution is to flush the brake and clutch lines periodically. I don't recall that Jaguar actually has a service interval for this, but I would argue that the ideal interval would depend on how and *where* you use the car. In my climate - the northeastern US - it's very humid, so brake fluid picks up moisture fairly quickly. I'll feel a difference at the pedal in two year old brake fluid, and have changed the fluid at this interval in every car that I've had over the past couple of decades. By the time brake fluid gets to be five years old, the brake pedal might end up feeling like that in every GM car that I've ever driven - like stepping into a pile of mashed potatoes. Or something.
On the other hand, my Dad is in a very dry climate in Colorado. He can probably get away with a five year fluid changing interval. I expect that your Arizona climate and car is similar. I also expect that, like most people's cars, your brake and clutch fluid has never been changed.
So check the level, and check the color. And get it flushed with new fluid if you're not sure if it has ever been done.
You should also check the *color* of the brake fluid while you're at it. When it's new, it will have a very light color - like chardonnay. As it ages, it turns brown like maple syrup and then even black like molasses. Part of the cause is probably from the master cylinder seals wearing and actually grinding into dust that dissolves into the solution, and part is probably due to the hygroscopic nature of most brake fluids. brake fluid hydroscopic - Google Search
Old brake fluid will result in a mushy-feeling brake pedal. This will effect the clutch pedal too, but I expect that it won't be very noticeable there.
The solution is to flush the brake and clutch lines periodically. I don't recall that Jaguar actually has a service interval for this, but I would argue that the ideal interval would depend on how and *where* you use the car. In my climate - the northeastern US - it's very humid, so brake fluid picks up moisture fairly quickly. I'll feel a difference at the pedal in two year old brake fluid, and have changed the fluid at this interval in every car that I've had over the past couple of decades. By the time brake fluid gets to be five years old, the brake pedal might end up feeling like that in every GM car that I've ever driven - like stepping into a pile of mashed potatoes. Or something.
On the other hand, my Dad is in a very dry climate in Colorado. He can probably get away with a five year fluid changing interval. I expect that your Arizona climate and car is similar. I also expect that, like most people's cars, your brake and clutch fluid has never been changed.
So check the level, and check the color. And get it flushed with new fluid if you're not sure if it has ever been done.
#14
The fact that it shifts easily into gear at a standstill counterindicates master/slave cylinder or fluid related problems.
#15
Clutch
Yes, what I wrote back then applies to all of the X-Type manuals, regardless of engine. However, what you've described sounds more like a clutch disc/flywheel problem. That's going to be a pricey repair. I'd advise bringing it to a trusted independent shop. They'll recognize the symptoms immediately.
The fact that it shifts easily into gear at a standstill counterindicates master/slave cylinder or fluid related problems.
The fact that it shifts easily into gear at a standstill counterindicates master/slave cylinder or fluid related problems.
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