Okay guys, so here's the deal. I was driving to the gas station which is one exit away from my house. My needle was on empty, usually I don't drive without atleast a half tank of gas. Needless to say as I was getting ready to get on the highway the car felt like it was loosing power the further I pressed on the gas pedal. Quickly coming to the realization I was running out if gas I decided to pull over where the car stalled out. Tow truck shows up with 3 gallons of gas, filled the tank and needle on dash shows it has fuel. Go to crank over and it sounds like it wants to start. Healthy crank, no hesitation. All belts attached. Still won't start. Took it home on Tow truck and did fuel pressure test, no pressure at all. All fuses and relays good, checked passanger side fuel pump cutoff switch it's not popped, pushed down for good measure. What am I missing here, I would hate to think a failed fuel pump when it only has 73,000 original miles only 91 oct constantly maintained and new fuel filters every 15k milws.

it died like there wasn't any more fuel in tank but now there is and it won't start, is it air trapped, I tried to prime it multiple times.

 

The sad news is that your fuel pump is probably fried. Modern in-tank pumps are cooled by the fuel around them and running a tank very low results in pump failure frequently. The irony here is that you normally do not drive with a tank less than half full. I had this same scenario on a Ford Taurus years ago. Since then I have been very careful about fuel levels and so far, so good. It is not a problem restricted to Jaguars by any means.

 

Welcome to the forum Ryan,

I'm sorry to hear about this issue. You may be very lucky and find it's only a fuse or relay but I have to agree with Gregory that the pump is likely to have failed in the circumstances. A regular issue reported on several Jaguar models with in-tank pumps.

When you get as chance, please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some information about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.

Graham

 

Is it not inherently dangerous to have something that could 'burn out' encased in a tank of volatile vapours?
Did nothing get learned from the Pinto or am I obviously missing something?
I quite often run mine down until the warning light comes on; is this likely to lead to pump problems?

 

Ryan, before you drop the tank and replace the fuel pump, try this. Get into the car and roll the key to the RUN position. This should send power to the fuel pump. NOw, get out and walk over near the right rear tire (passenger side for you) and lay down on the ground to locate the gas tank. Near the center on the half of the gas tank near you, you should see a half moon there. Make a fist and give the center of that half moon a few good whacks with your fist. Now, attempt to start the car. If it starts now, your fuel pump is definitely on its way out. If it still does not start, you can try removing the line from the fuel filter that goes back to the fuel pump. You can then apply power to the fuel pump for say a second or two (having a second person is helpful here) to see if you get fuel out there. If yes, then you have another issue (most likely a clogged fuel filter). If no, then this pretty much points to a bad fuel pump.

 

Thanks everyone for the swift responses! I will definitely give this a try, need to get this car back on the road. By chance you wouldn't suspect the pump control module to have failed by coincidence? How likely are the odds of a failed pump control module.

 

Sadly, it only takes a few minutes to fry the pump if the fuel runs below the top of the actual pump itself...which happens at about an eighth of a tank.


There is anothet possibility, though.


Since you've pulled the fuel down to the dregs, if there was a bunch of dirt at the bottom of the tank, that is likely in your fuel filter now. Thermo's test will let you know for sure!

 

I attempted to give the tank a good few whacks with my fist to see if possibly the car would crank over.
No such luck.. I work for a parts store so I borrowed a fuel test kit, still tested 0-PSI at the rail.

At this point I've come to the conclusion the pump is gone. For good measure I decided to take off
the connector to the fuel pump and check for power with the key in just incase the module was bad.
Power was showing just like it normally should.

Unfortunately with the way the fuel tank is I decided to carefully make a cut in the floorboard to
gain access to the fuel pump assembly without requiring to pull the entire car apart.
Hated to do so but was my only option since I need this car back on the road soon.

Bought a new pump off of amazon as a complete unit for about $334 USD.
So cheers to this one working successfully.

Thanks to everyone for the quick responses. Much appreciate the insight on the diagnosis.
Will post further updates as time progresses!

 

Your practice of often running the tank down to near empty is simply courting disaster - in addition to eliminating the cooling effect of the fuel around the pump, a further complication arises in summer time, for obvious reasons. The effect of low fuel supply on the in-tank fuel pumps has been confirmed to me by Jaguar technicians - and again, this is not a "Jaguar problem"; many modern cars have in-tank pumps susceptible to this issue. And it has nothing to do with the Pinto issue which was the result of rear-end collision.

 

It was my understanding that while having the fluid on the outside of the pump helps with cooling, the majority of the cooling is done by the fluid that is being pumped through the pump. So, as long as you have the pump running and fluid passing through it, that is sufficient to keep things adequately cooled.

If you are going to say that having the pump submerged is what keeps it cooled, then you had never run the tank to less than 3/4 of a tank. At that point, the pump starts coming uncovered.

Steve M, as for why it is not a problem to have an electric pump in an environment of explosive vapors is simply a matter of not having any oxygen in the area. Gas tanks are sealed and therefore do not get an adequate supply of oxygen in them to cause combustion, even in the presence of a spark.

 

My understanding is the same as yours, Thermo. The cooling effect is the fuel pumping through the components and cooling the motor windings. The fuel surrounding the fuel pump is not a major contributor to keeping the windings cooled.

The argument could be made that consistently running the car out of gas, would mean air was being sucked through the unit, and the windings (because gas is a better heat dissipating element) could heat up and begin to melt causing the pump to fail eventually and of course quicker over it's expected life.

 

Dell, the other thing you have to keep in mind is that it also uses the gasoline as a lubricant for the bearings. So, yes, between the lack of cooling and running the bearings with no lubrication, I would fully expect a component to fail in short order.

 

Plus, I would imagine there are a ton of people out there that run their tanks to almost empty before filling up. If that is the case failing fuel pumps would be an almost daily occurance on here (and pretty much every other forum). That is definitely not the case.

 

Yeah, also there are ENORMOUS amounts of cars manufactured with the fuel pump sitting high in the tank (conversely to the old, old tanks that had a sunken "well" built into the tank) above fuel level. If the surrounding fuel was the greatest contributor to the pump being cooled, these type (again = MANY) would be failing left and right.

 

Can't say for the X-Type but Jaguar do document for the S-Type that the fuel cools the pumps. You can debate why they made sure to point that out... but it's simpler not to take risks.

(Mine burns fuel quite fast, so I don't want to risk burning pumps too.)

 

Sorry to hear your trouble Ryan. I'm one of those that only stops to fill up after seeing the fuel light come on. At that point I switch the readout to 'Range' and it usually reads about 31 miles of range remaining. I usually get gas with about ten miles of range remaining.

This morning was one of those. I turned on the car and had 10 miles of range, I was a little late for work and thought damn I don't want to stop for gas, but work is 12 miles away. Anyway, I get to the gas station that is at the on ramp to my fwy and all the pumps are taped off! No gas here. Damn! I had 8 miles of range and got on the fwy. Long story short, I pulled into a Chevron with zero range! I've driven on zero range once b4 for a couple miles. Anyway, my X has 150K miles on that pump, car runs great.